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Norman Palmer
United Kingdom
Hereford
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As the per title which is better??

I am looking for a 4x game, space theme preferred but not a must!

I played 40k, warhammer, war machine and others for years, but now I have moved onto board games and yes I like euro games (a lot, worker placement the most then cards, dice) as well so not really an issue as what kind of game play!

I have played eclipse two times about two years ago, Don't remember lots about it but I remember I really liked it. Long games but yeah liked the whole idea of 4x.

I have not played Exodus and do not know anyone with it.

The new expansion for Exodus gives Exodus a head start for me.

But on here Eclipse seems to get more love!!

Any input from someone who has played both or why they will not play one of them is more than welcome.

Its guna be a christmas present (well thats my plan the other may not agreewhistle) so guna way up pros and cons......

many thanks

meeple
 
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Dan
United States
Bountiful
Utah
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Have not played Exodus yet, it's on my wishlist.

Eclipse Does well with the exploration, but I have heard some complain that the randomness of the exploration is a detriment, because you can get bad draws, and you'll have to deal with the fallout for a long time, because of the length of the game.

I really like the way Eclipse does the technology advancement, and the economy. The random technologies that come out give some uniqueness to each play, and I like that it's not a tree, but you have more open advancement. The tableau that you uncover as you play to increase your various incomes is elegant.

Late game Eclipse becomes a dice chucker. the battles have lots of dice, and the default hit on a 6 can really draw out some battles, and the odds are that you won't hit.

Overall a fun game, and if the random elements are a plus for variability, rather than a negative for lack of control, then you will like it.

Some other suggestions for space 4x(ish):

Twilight Imperium (Third Edition) - This is a big one, if you have 6 hours to play, it has a lot to offer. Beyond the 4x, it also does tech, politics, trade, secret objectives, and more.

Empires of the Void - Haven't played this in a few years, but I liked the tech, and the exploration in this, as well as the ship advancement.

Galactic Emperor - This is more Euro, but it has many of the 4x elements, with a Puerto Rico role selection thrown in the mix.

Non space 4x(ish), I would recommend Clash of Cultures.
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Norman Palmer
United Kingdom
Hereford
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yeah TI3 would be the buy in truth but 6 to 8 hours it would never hit the table!

I will look up clash.

thank you
meeple
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Adria D
Canada
Victoria
British Columbia
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Personally, I prefer Exodus to Eclipse. For me, Exodus comes the closest to a TI3-lite, and I'm a big fan of TI3.

Unlike Dan, I dislike the random technology of Eclipse. I prefer everyone having a fixed set of technologies to choose from. The Exodus expansion gives each faction a unique set of technologies to add to the main tech board, and that gives some variety tech-wise. The random tech availability of Eclipse can lead to some balance issues, depending on how the techs come out.

Eclipse also feels very euro-y to me. While I enjoy euros, I found it a bit dry and a bit too economic-based for a big space opera. The economy is an important part of Exodus too, but it doesn't feel as euro-like as Eclipse. I like the political aspect of Exodus, which Eclipse doesn't have.

I'd say go for Eclipse if you prefer euros, or go for Exodus if you want a more thematic space opera.
 
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Wim van Gruisen
Netherlands
Den Bosch
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I haven't played Exodus, but as a fan of Eclipse I wanted to give some counterweight to the above posts

Eclipse is a very complete game, a complex 4X game with easy, intuitive rules - thanks to the great user interface. There is not much bookkeeping involved - perhaps that gives that Euro feeling, but it really helps in letting players focus on the game itself.

Players who play for the first time complain that there are too many random elements, but more experienced players know how to handle those - part of the game is to manage those elements (of course, it can be that the players most bothered by the randomness have already given up on the game before they became experienced). Going in from the beginning with a fixed plan won't work in Eclipse - while setting goals from the start helps, you have to be flexible enough to deal with changing circumstances. But as I said, the randomness can be managed. You have to spend some time to get used to the game, though.

Eclipse is deep. And with that I mean that you get more insight, learn new things every time you play it. That is what makes people bring it to the table again and again. At first people curse when they explore a new tile and find it covered with Ancients (an NPC enemy), but with some experience in the game they go looking for those tiles, because they know now that these enemies can easily be beaten, and the tiles they occupy are rich in resources.

Another example: A previous poster complained about the final round being a big dice fest, where you only hit opponent ships on a 6. Most people who played the game more than once or twice know that having combats early is more advantageous, as you get more victory points when you fight soon instead of letting it all come down to the last round. And that you will have to upgrade your ships so that they hit on more than just a 6 - you won't win if you haven't installed dice modifiers.

So that is Eclipse. It's an exciting game, where you try to grow your tiny, one-tile space empire to one that wins the game. After every game you go home with the feeling that you've actually built something. And you'll think back on what you could have done differently. And it's a game - like the classics; Chess, Bridge, Go - that has deepness, allowing you to explore the mechanisms and how you can use them better each time.

Next to that, it's very complete. You have exploration, combat, a technology tree that is different every game. It's a point salad, so you cannot win by focusing on a single strategy. Combat alone gives you just 16 points, for example, and technology 15 if you're very good at it - but you need to score at least in the high thirties to have a chance to win.

So if you like games where you can focus on one source of VP, and where you can plan your game from the start, Eclipse is not for you. If you like games where flexibility pays off - in adapting your goals to take advantage of circumstances, in getting points from multiple sources - and which are deep enough to have you playing for years, then Eclipse would be a good choice.

neverfullbelly wrote:
The new expansion for Exodus gives Exodus a head start for me.

May I ask why? I guess that you know of the expansions that Eclipse had? Two major expansions, next to a ship pack and a couple of smaller ones that are rather promo-like (just two tiles and a new technology).
 
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Matt Brown
United States
Okemos
Michigan
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Undeadviking did a rather detailed review of Exodus. It really comes down to do you want a consolidated version of TI3 or not? I looked into Exodus and decided against it. Based on a reviewer I trust and my geekbuddy list, Eclipse is the better choice for me.
 
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Kathrin
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Played Eclipse, Exodus and TI3.

TI3 is one of the best and most epic games I have played, but you need the right people to play with and commit a day to just one game, but if you do, you definitely get rewarded for that. I won't go into detail here as it seems you won't be able to play it, but just say if you get the chance to play it and like 4X games don't turn down the chance to test it, it's awesome and hours just fly by, at least for me.

Eclipse was the first 4X space game I got years ago and I still love it, so definitely a recommendation from me. It's a great strategic game and definitely more on the euro side than Exodus or TI3. Theme is not the strongest, but the gameplay is great. You have to carefully manage your resources and adjust your strategy every game.
The best part of Eclipse in my opinion is that you can create your own unique ships, which differ from other players and also change from game to game. There are a lot of technologies you can get to upgrade your ships. Yes there is some randomness in which technologies are available each game, but I don't see this as a disadvantage, for me this adds to the replayability, so that you need to adapt your strategy every game. Exploring the universe and expanding is interesting, even though exploration can be a bit too random for some. We use a house rule in which you can redraw tiles for VPs, I remember this to be some sort of tournament rule for Eclipse and works great for us.
The game has a lot of elements that change the game every time you play, there are a lot of different races with unique abilities, combat is fun and gets less random the better your ships get. I can also recommend both expansions as they add more of everything to the game, without making the game much more complex, just adding more variety. But the base game alone should yield you tons of hours of fun.

Now to Exodus. I was looking for another 4X space game for quite some time and found Exodus, which looked great (revised edition) and sounded really interesting. But it fell totally flat for us. We played it 3 or 4 times with the expansion to test the different races, but from what I remember we found it to be a totally random, unbalanced game.
You can upgrade your ships, but nowhere near as great as in Eclipse. There is quite a number of technologies, but we mostly picked the same, as there were some we felt are much better than others, and some that are just too strong. Sure in Eclipse there are also some technologies everyone wants to get, but depending on the availability not everyone can get them, which makes it much more interesting for me and increases variability. The different races in the expansion sounded great and add unique technologies, but maybe we just picked bad matchups, some of the races felt a lot stronger than others.
Most people claim Exodus to be a TI3 light, because it adds political decisions, which is a great feature of TI3 and is missing in Eclipse. This was one of the things where I hoped the game would shine, but sadly this part just didn't feel interesting at all. No interesting decisions, no discussions and not much interaction, just drags out the game.
Exodus also doesn't have much exploration as the game board is set up face up, you might meet some enemies, but you know that before you enter the space, only how hard they hit you is unknown.
I felt Exodus is only about fighting and didn't get the feeling of building and growing an empire. Also you definitely need fighting to win, if I remember it correct there is a race that is good in trading, but we felt you can't get far with trading, so in essence there is only one way to win and that is fighting and in addition this is really random. I know a lot of people like rolling dozens of dice, and Eclipse also has dice for their combat system, but for me Exodus felt much too random with the focus being so heavy on combat.
Maybe it wasn't the best idea to play the game from the beginning with the expansion included, which might have influenced our view on the races and the game balance, but after this bad of an experience with the game I just wanted to get rid of it and it will be very hard to convince me to try it again.

Exodus has in my opinion less theme than Eclipse, when comparing base games. With the Exodus expansion and the addition of different races I find them comparable, but both are pretty far away from the theme TI3 delivers.
Timewise I would say Exodus and Eclipse are about the same and need some hours to be played, depending on the player number, but usually can be finished in an evening.


So as you might guess, if you read so far I don't recommend Exodus from my experience with the game. Eclipse on the other hand is a great and solid game, which nicely combines ameritrash dice chucking and euro style resource management and has a great replayability. So if what I wrote and what Wim said earlier sounds interesting, and as you already played and liked it, I would say go with Eclipse.
 
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Norman Palmer
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I was thinking Exodus over Eclipse but now !!!!!!

Some very interesting points you all have made there,
the lack of exploration is a Big negative.

I have played Eclipse but it was to long to remember lots about it, I am going to have to play Exodus before I get it and defiantly need to replay Eclipse.

Thank you allmeeple
 
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K S
United States
Tonawanda
New York
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neverfullbelly wrote:
I am looking for a 4x game, space theme preferred but not a must!


I'm just going to leave this here: Space Empires: 4X whistle

It's between print runs right now, but is due out in Q2 2017 (perhaps a bit late for Christmas). There is also one expansion out and a second one coming along also in Q2 2017.
 
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