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Subject: Some clarifications about ownership interactions? rss

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Kevin González
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It's not a very complicated question by any means, but I kind of want to see how would you guys play it out. I will use Time Traveller/Ignobles for my scenario:

When the base scores, I control Doctor When, Time Raider, and a minion owned by another player. He controls my Jumper (any other minion would be irrelevant for my example.)

I decide to play Wormhole (Special: Play after a base scores. Shuffle your minions there into your deck instead of placing them in the discard pile.) What happens to my Jumper? What happens to the minion I control, but don't own?

I'm presuming that I get to shuffle his minion into his deck, but my Jumper goes to my discard pile, since it's not "my minion" at the moment of Wormhole's resolution. If that is the case, I'm presuming that I can return it to my hand instead of the discard pile, as my opponent does not "control" it on my discard pile.

How would you rule this? Thanks in advance.
 
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Chuck Jones, yo
United States
Oregon
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Haha, wild question! I think the RAW can be of some help. During the "Back to Your Corners" phase of a base breaking:

"After scoring, players can use Special abilities that happen 'after' a base scores. Then all cards still on that base go to their owners’ discard piles."

Only recently has the term "owner" versus "controller" gained headachey relevance in this beloved card game. The Jumper is shuffled back into its owner's deck-- yours. And of course, the Jumper's minion ability does not trigger because its final destination is your deck not your discard.

Edit: and d'accord, your opponent's minion that you control will be sent to your opponent's discard.
 
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Kevin González
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If I were to play actions like Howl, Swashbuckling, or The Deep Ones, my Jumper would not get boosted by them, since I don't control him. Why would Wormhole shuffle it back into my deck? They all have the same wording (each of your minions.)

Also, Jumper is an Ongoing, not a Special, and it resolves in my discard pile, where only I have control over it. It basically boils down as to whether or not it gets Wormhole'd back into my deck. I would like to say I'm ruling it correctly, but sometimes things get rather...unusual rulings in this game, hence why I ask.
 
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Daniel F
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DWN021 wrote:
If I were to play actions like Howl, Swashbuckling, or The Deep Ones, my Jumper would not get boosted by them, since I don't control him. Why would Wormhole shuffle it back into my deck? They all have the same wording (each of your minions.)


I agree with you--I don't see why it would return to your hand, because you never control it when it is in play--until it hits your discard pile, the Jumper isn't "your" minion.

As you mentioned in your original post, your opponent's minion would go into his deck as well (based on your quoted text on Wormhole, you don't have a choice).

You could then return the Jumper to your hand as well!
 
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Chuck Jones, yo
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Oregon
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Ah ok. I understand the thrust of your question better.

The order of actions as a base scores is

1- Play any before Base Scores Specials
2- Allocate Victory points
3- Play any after Base Scores Specials
4- Perform the "Back to your Corners" phase


The Wormhole action is played in step3, but its effects manifest during step 4. I would rule that Wormhole simply replaces the term "discard pile" with "shuffled into your deck" during step 4, and you otherwise play the Back to Your Corners phase normally.

It seems as though you feel Wormhole creates something like a "Step 3.5", a "Wormhole Phase" that happens before the Back to Your Corners Phase, and the "your" in the card text refers to minions you control (just like if you had played Howl). --it seems we're just dickering over what the term "your minions" refers to, and more importantly when the term becomes relevant.

Both sound like valid solutions to me, I don't think there's a precedent for this yet. Ima stick with my interpretation, yours has some heat to it as well.

...

I do outright disagree that the opponent's minion returns to their deck. The wormhole text reads "Play after a base scores. Shuffle your minions there into your deck instead of placing them in the discard pile." C'mon guys... you've highlighted fantastic ambiguity as far as what "your minion" refers to, but the term "your deck" is pretty clearly "YOUR deck." Opponent's minion gets flushed into their discard. It can't go to your deck.
 
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