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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Skirmisher - Carve a Path Questions rss

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John Searle
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Hi All,

Questions for the descent gurus:

Carve a Path text:
Quote:
Move up to your Speed, then perform an attack. During this movement, you may move through spaces containing enemy figures. This attack affects each monster you moved through during this action.


I'll assume this means 1 attack roll to multiple defense rolls.

1. Can you trade items during a Carve a Path action considering there is movement?

2. If a surge is spent on stamina, do you get 1 stamina per monster involved in the attack (assuming connection w/ each)?

3. It states to perform an attack after the movement, with each target moved through being targets of the attack. So, I read this as three separate steps: (1) movement; (2) attack action; (3) special rule resolution. So, I complete my movements, I resolve an attack against an adjacent opponent, and then that attack also applies to all targets I had moved through (similar to Fire Breath). Is this correct?

4. Carve a Path does not specify a weapon type. How does this work with a range weapon?

Thanks!
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Paul
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johnsearle wrote:
Hi All,

Questions for the descent gurus:

Carve a Path text:
Quote:
Move up to your Speed, then perform an attack. During this movement, you may move through spaces containing enemy figures. This attack affects each monster you moved through during this action.


I'll assume this means 1 attack roll to multiple defense rolls.

1. Can you trade items during a Carve a Path action considering there is movement?

2. If a surge is spent on stamina, do you get 1 stamina per monster involved in the attack (assuming connection w/ each)?

3. It states to perform an attack after the movement, with each target moved through being targets of the attack. So, I read this as three separate steps: (1) movement; (2) attack action; (3) special rule resolution. So, I complete my movements, I resolve an attack against an adjacent opponent, and then that attack also applies to all targets I had moved through (similar to Fire Breath). Is this correct?

4. Carve a Path does not specify a weapon type. How does this work with a range weapon?

Thanks!


1) No. It is not a move action, no MP are spent.

2) No, just 1. 1 attack, 1 surge spent, 1 fatigue recovered.

3) You move through the spaces, then perform an attack which AFFECTS all monsters you moved through. It actually TARGETS no one (unlike fire breath).

4) The same as it works with a melee weapon. Range is not measured to a target space because there is no target space.
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John Searle
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Cool. Thanks for the quick reply.
 
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John Searle
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I have a follow up question to this...

How does Carve a Path work with AoE items, like Mace of Kellos or Blast?

For example, if two targets are beside each other, and carve a path hits them both, and Blast is used as the surge.

Resolution order:
1. Resolve target one attack
2. Resolve target two attack

Target one's blast (caused by spent surge) impacts target two.
Target two's blast impacts target one.

Point of blast is the target of the attack at that time.

It sounds powerful, but yet in keeping with the resolution of attacks. Am I understanding this correctly?
 
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T France
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Blast needs a targeted space. You have none of those with Carve a Path (just Affected creatures...)
 
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John Searle
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Thanks. And what about message of Kellie?
 
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Robert Ozga
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Mace of Kellos
surge: Each monster adjacent to you suffers 1 damage.

So when you perform Carve a Path during the spend surge step of attack you can activate this ability ane each monster adjacent to your hero at the time of spending surge will suffer 1 damage.
This is not added to overall damage dealt by attack. Its separate damage source.
You may deal damage to monsters that are not affected by Carve a Path and not all monsters affected by Carve a Path have to be affected by this ability.


About blast and attacks that target more than one space/monster:
You are still performing a single attack and monster/hero can suffer damage from single attack only once.
So even is monster was targeted by attack directly and its affected by blast originated from other target - it still suffers damage one from this attack.
The same is true for monsters/heroes which are affected by attack multiple times. Damage is dealt only once.

The same is true for example for fire breath.
You can move it twice through the same hero but he will suffer damage only once.
 
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Paul
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A quick clarification regarding Carve and the Mace, though this was implied by IceRik's answer. For the Carve action you move, THEN you perform an attack which affects all the monsters you moved through. In other words, you occupy you final space (where you ended the movement) during the attack, so things like Mace of Kellos would work from there, not from each of the spaces you moved through.

I agree that Carve a Path is an invalid attack for blast- as there is no target space, blast would have no effect.
 
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John Searle
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OK. Thanks again to everyone.
 
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Binh Vo
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zaltyre wrote:

3) You move through the spaces, then perform an attack which AFFECTS all monsters you moved through. It actually TARGETS no one (unlike fire breath).


This looks wrong to me going by RAW. The first part of the skill states

"Move up to your Speed, then perform an attack."

If that's all a skill said, then it would be clear that after your movement you perform an attack targeting someone adjacent to your final location.

The skill then goes on to say:

"During this movement, you may move through spaces containing enemy figures. This attack affects each monster you moved through during this action."

Nothing written there 'takes back' the fact that the first part of the skill, if taken alone, would have a final target. Saying an attack affects a bunch of things doesn't remove its target, it just says these things are additionally affected.

It's similar to how a blast has a targeted square and then a bunch of extra affected squares. Adding affected squares does not nullify the existence of a target square, unless a skill explicitly says so.
 
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Robert Ozga
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I was not able to find any official source but is a common consensus in community that Carve a Path does not have a target.
I assume that this is to avoid precedence of attack that optionally has a target.

Lets check all possible outcomes of Carve a Path assuming it does not have a target(1) and that it has target(2):
a) move through none monsters and end movement in space not adjacent to any monster
b) move through none monsters and end movement in space adjacent to a monster you did not move through
c) move through at least one space containing monster and end movement in space not adjacent to any monster
d) move through at least one space containing monster and end movement in space adjacent to the monster you moved through
e) move through at least one space containing monster and end movement in space adjacent to a monster you did not move through

So case a) is simple - in (1) and (2) you just move up to your speed.
Case b) is simple in (1) - you do not perform an attack. In (2) is more complicated as you may argue that any monster adjacent to you is a valid target for attack even if you did not move through it.
Case c) again simple in (1) - attack affects monster(s) you moved through. In (2) you may argue that if there is no valid target for attack you can't perform it or you create precedence that this attack may not require target.
Case d) once again simple in (1) - only monsters you moved through are affected. In (2) you would assume that adjacent monster is a target for this attack. What if there is more that one adjacent monster, on what criteria you select a target or all of them become a target?
Case e) this is conclusion from cases b) and c). In (1) you attack only monsters you moved through and in (2) you may argue that monster you did not move through is valid target.

This is all done with assumption that Skirmisher has melee weapon, with range weapon its even more complicated.
Generally assumption that this attack does not have a target produces more consistent ruling - attack monsters you moved through. Assuming that there is a target requires additional clarifications:
- what can be a target? only one of monsters you moved through or any monster?
- if there is not valid target are other monsters still affected or you can't attack at all?
- does this attack has only one target or may have more than one target?
 
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Paul
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Here is the relevant rules question/response from March 2015:


Rules Question:
The Skirmisher's "Carve a Path" (and some other abilities like the Giant's "Sweep" are attacks which "affect all spaces..." Do these attacks target any spaces, or are all spaces merely "affected" by the attack? (Does this mean the Giant can't stun with "Sweep," or is the use of "target" in the surge ability nonspecific?) Thanks!

Answer:
Hi Paul,

Those attacks remain consistent with the use of “target” versus “affect,” meaning that there is no target in an attack that simply affects figures. We’ve further discussed that any surge for conditions (Surge: Stun, Surge: Poison, etc.) used during such an attack should extend to those affected by an attack and not just the target. So in your example, though a Giant does not have a target when it sweeps, it may still Stun affected figures if it applies Stun to the attack.

Thanks for playing!
Kara Centell-Dunk
Creative Content Developer
 
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John Searle
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I sent the question to FFG, here is the response from Nathan Hajek:

Quote:
Q: Can you trade items during a Carve a Path action considering there is movement?
A: Carve a Path is not a move action, but rather allows the hero to move up to his speed. As such, trading is not allowed.


Quote:
Q: If a surge is spent on stamina, do you get 1 stamina per monster involved in the attack (assuming connection w/ each)?
A: Spending a surge to recover fatigue only recovers 1 fatigue, regardless of the number of targets.


Quote:
Q: It states to perform an attack after the movement, with each target moved through being targets of the attack. So, I read this as three separate steps: (1) movement; (2) attack action; (3) special rule resolution. So, I complete my movements, I resolve an attack against an adjacent opponent, and then that attack also applies to all targets I had moved through (similar to Fire Breath). Is this correct?

A: The attack does not target any particular monster but rather affects all monsters moved through. There is no additional target of the attack, only the monsters moved through.


Quote:
Q: Carve a Path does not specify a weapon type. How does this work with a range weapon?
A: This would work the same as a melee weapon, as you do not need to specify a target space. Range results and line of sight are irrelevant.
 
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