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Subject: Does anyone prefer orginal + Banners hero rules compared to revised edition? rss

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steffan kristensen
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I's nice that the new rules allow the heroes to move and support in battles, but I really think it makes the commander heroes less useful.

I've actually considered house ruling that heroes play by original edition rules and commanders play by revised edition rules.

Then you've got the heroes running around on their own, questing, and the commanders move along with the armies and support them with extra fate cards and commander abilities.

What are your thoughts on this?

Maybe this belongs in the variants sub forum, but it's just as much a question about which rules you prefer. I've only played the game once, so I don't know if it messes with the balance
 
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Scott Lewis
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ssk0909 wrote:
I's nice that the new rules allow the heroes to move and support in battles, but I really think it makes the commander heroes less useful.

I personally don't mind that, because I really hated the commander rules anyway. The rules for commanders were too restrictive and didn't really add much to the game, whereas the hero movement/support rules were much cleaner and simpler.

Quote:
I've actually considered house ruling that heroes play by original edition rules and commanders play by revised edition rules.

The only problem is that one thing about Hero movement is it also allows questing to become a little easier, since they can be moved without having to wait until Summer (and in some cases, this makes it so Heroes can't be trapped by a Flooded Area).


I should note, if you do use Commanders, they are not incompatible with the Revised Edition rules. Commanders are still heroes, and would still get to use all the extra rules for support and moving. This means, if a Commander is in an area with a battle, not only do they get to use their Commander stuff, they would also support a unit type.

Basically, if I'm reading your post right, your variant suggestion would be to remove the hero movement/support rules for regular heroes?


In short - the new hero rules shouldn't take anything away from commanders, since they can use them too; it just boosts regular heroes a little to help incorporate them into the game more. (I don't think that was something that was absolutely NEEDED, but I think the implementation works well without drastically shifting the focus of the game).
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steffan kristensen
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sigmazero13 wrote:
ssk0909 wrote:
I's nice that the new rules allow the heroes to move and support in battles, but I really think it makes the commander heroes less useful.

I personally don't mind that, because I really hated the commander rules anyway. The rules for commanders were too restrictive and didn't really add much to the game, whereas the hero movement/support rules were much cleaner and simpler.

Quote:
I've actually considered house ruling that heroes play by original edition rules and commanders play by revised edition rules.

The only problem is that one thing about Hero movement is it also allows questing to become a little easier, since they can be moved without having to wait until Summer (and in some cases, this makes it so Heroes can't be trapped by a Flooded Area).


I should note, if you do use Commanders, they are not incompatible with the Revised Edition rules. Commanders are still heroes, and would still get to use all the extra rules for support and moving. This means, if a Commander is in an area with a battle, not only do they get to use their Commander stuff, they would also support a unit type.

Basically, if I'm reading your post right, your variant suggestion would be to remove the hero movement/support rules for regular heroes?


In short - the new hero rules shouldn't take anything away from commanders, since they can use them too; it just boosts regular heroes a little to help incorporate them into the game more. (I don't think that was something that was absolutely NEEDED, but I think the implementation works well without drastically shifting the focus of the game).


You make good points.

Perhaps giving all heroes commander cards (And otherwise playing by revised rules) could be interesting. It would give heroes more impact in battle, and strategically players would always have to consider if they want to use the heroes for battle support or questing.
 
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Garrett
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I still have never used the commander rules, in part because I'm usually teaching new people and want to keep things relatively streamlined, and in part due to the balance issues that Scott has brought up on several occasions. I should probably give it a try some time.

But thematically, I like that the heroes can support units in battle even if those heroes are not commanders. To me, it really fits the fantasy theme where heroes do amazing things on the battlefield. Take Return of the Jedi, for example (I'm considering it space fantasy instead of sci-fi). Han gets promoted to Commander and takes a group of commandos to the forest moon of Endor. Leia, Chewie, and Luke go with him, even though none of them have formal combat training. Yet Chewie still makes a huge impact on the battle that basically lets the Rebels turn the tide (by stealing the AT-ST).

I see heroes in Runewars in the same light. They aren't all leaders, but they can have a significant impact on how a battle turns out. Even though heroes just allow an extra fate card to be drawn, and even though that sometimes becomes a damage, I don't imagine these heroes are necessarily performing Legolas-level feats on the battlefield. Instead, I think they're doing other heroic things around the battlefield that give the upper-hand to the rest of their allies, thus allowing for extra damage, routs, etcetera. So I'm totally in favor of heroes supporting units in battle even if the heroes are not commanders.

I think I'll try commanders out next time I play so that I can start forming my own opinion about them.
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Keith M. Sandler
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sigmazero13 wrote:
I should note, if you do use Commanders, they are not incompatible with the Revised Edition rules. Commanders are still heroes, and would still get to use all the extra rules for support and moving. This means, if a Commander is in an area with a battle, not only do they get to use their Commander stuff, they would also support a unit type.


Man, I must've missed that and have been playing (I think) that it's an either/or situation. Looking at the rules, though, it doesn't mention anything either way about commanders supporting, so I'll take that as inclusive.

Thanks!

-kMs
 
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Scott Lewis
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Dark Son wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:
I should note, if you do use Commanders, they are not incompatible with the Revised Edition rules. Commanders are still heroes, and would still get to use all the extra rules for support and moving. This means, if a Commander is in an area with a battle, not only do they get to use their Commander stuff, they would also support a unit type.


Man, I must've missed that and have been playing (I think) that it's an either/or situation. Looking at the rules, though, it doesn't mention anything either way about commanders supporting, so I'll take that as inclusive.

The commander rules won't mention it, because the hero support rules (from the revised edition) were created afterwards.

But it has been confirmed via ruling from Corey K (the designer) that this is indeed the case
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