Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
10 Posts

Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients» Forums » General

Subject: Loot Points? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Daniel U. Thibault
Canada
Québec
Québec
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
A weakness of the game, as stated recurrently, is that the best loot is available from the very start, unlike other systems (like Myth and others) where the loot you get is scaled to the threat you faced.

Maybe we could break the loot deck outcomes (including Gear and Artefacts) into say three tiers of rewards. New characters would only have access to the first tier, "graduating" to the next when the threat level grows enough (based on posse level, I suppose).

A further evolution of the concept would be that each loot-generating outcome yields "loot points" that each character can accumulate to "buy" a specific gear/artefact. (Maybe not an outright pick-out-of-a-catalog system, but rather the "purchase" gives you the right to draw from a small deck of prize items ---to maintain some randomness--- once you get the appropriate loot outcome ---e.g. wait for the next "draw a Gear" outcome)

Anyway, I'm putting up this half-baked idea for debate.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Finn
United States
Encinitas
California
flag msg tools
Sunken warplane
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's an interesting thought, but I think dividing the loot deck into multiple decks would add another element of mechanical detail to the game without enhancing the game experience enough to compensate. In my experience having the 'best' loot available from the beginning hasn't degraded the game experience, so I don't think the proposed change would provide enough bang for the added-detail-buck. On top of that, I'd be concerned such a change would make the 'best' loot available only after many sessions of continuous play with the same characters, so one-off sessions with new characters would never encounter them.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Njorl
United States
Rhode Island
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
There are so many mechanics that can be employed given the decks. Between themed decks, darkness, growing dread, encounter cards, and threat cards, you could really slide the game in any direction. I mean it's a deal breaker if you get serpentmen as your first encounter with a nasty tribe card, and only a couple of items. or Belial as your epic boss.

I think it's a really cool idea to have mines that have loot decks that have more gear cards, or more artifact cards. I mean the otherworlds are essentially themed decks. So the long abandoned mine might have more artifacts whereas the recently abandoned mine, where the town formed a large posse which failed miserably, would be more likely to have gear. The rich mines that people are afraid to go into, would have better gold, and darkstone cards. Throw in a loaded threat deck and you have a pretty cool picture painted.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Everts
United States
Foothill Ranch
California
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
"Nobody gets me. I'm the wind, baby!" - Tom Servo
badge
"Push the button, Frank!"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I love the idea of themed and scaled loot decks. The game is a super sandbox but lacks overall story and campaign options. I could see a large campaign book like HexCrawl that adjusts decks for specific mines, canyons (when that set is avail), towns. This game feels one step away from a board game version of an MMO. All the parts, but missing the overall environment.

I was hoping once they got the Wave 2 stuff done, they'd work on something like this but instead they're moving on to another box set. So looks like they don't have much interest in doing the campaign set we all would love to have. Though the town box set is a good start. There's so many good RPG designers out there that could help design one.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dustin Freund
msg tools
Totally agree with Daniel.

Growing up loving Final Fantasy 1 and Dragon Warrior 1, I'm the type of gamer that appreciates incremental rewards. Some folks may love drawing an epic gun after one of their first encounters, but I'm quite the opposite and feel like I've cheated the game.

If you get a killer weapon early in the game, what is there to look forward to later on? After all, isn't the fun of a game like SoB accumulating better and better loot to overcome bigger and badder enemies?

Like you suggested, I really love the idea of dividing the gear into three tiers, similar to a World of Warcraft/Diablo loot system where there is green gear, blue gear and purple gear, maybe even orange gear. Perhaps for regular encounters, if you do draw a loot or artifact card, you only draw from the green deck. During final encounters, you add the blue deck to the green deck. During boss fights, you add the purple deck as well.

Another option is you roll (yeah more rolling!) every time you draw a gear or artifact card. 1, 2, 3 is green deck; 4 is blue deck; 5 is purple deck. And maybe if you roll a 6, you get to roll one more time for another 6 which lets you draw from the orange deck. The problem I see with this system is I'd still feel guilty if during my first quest I was drawing from the purple or orange deck.

Lastly, the only problem I see is you are essentially nerfing your heroes in an already pretty difficult game (at least early on). You still have just as high a chance of having an early encounter with some nasty enemies, but no (or very little) chance of having a nice weapon to help dispatch of them.

Anyway, interesting topic that I'm very interested in discussing/working toward a solution.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Hughes
Australia
Camden
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Assuming access to both core games how about amalgamating the two loot decks with only one artifact and gear card.

Upon completion of a mission successfully you are allowed to remove one card from the deck as a permanent effect (either random or player choice) with the artifact and gear card excluded from the selection.

As you progress and become more successful you increase your chances of receiving the better items.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jee Fu
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
This game isn't really designed to promote the mechanic of continuous gear-replacement. It wants to you upgrade your load-out by making interesting choices, rather than upgrade your dude by simply finding slightly better versions of stuff you already have. The game would rather you not find an upgrade at all then hand out a bunch of "same, but slightly better"s every mission.

I agree with this philosophy for many reasons, but the biggest are:

1) It keeps the focus on your build and your tactics (choices), rather than on making numbers get arbitrarily bigger (non-choices). Put another way, it knows that 1 meaningful choice > 20 upgrades that don't actually change the way you play your Hero. There are very few straight-up "this > that" moments and when they DO come up it's pretty obvious what you should do. That's not really gameplay; it's a trick to make you think you're a winner because "more stuff" hits the reward centers of your brain regardless of whether or not you're being engaged. That's fine if that's all you need, but I find that kind of implementation gets transparent pretty fast.

2) The logistics involved in making that kind of scaling work in a board game would be considerable. You would need 4x the cards and 4x the monster difficulties - which I wouldn't say no to, but I'd rather they spend the development time on new mechanics, instead of more/less powerful versions of the same stuff.

It's clear to me that FFP agrees with this, at least to a certain extent. There is something to be said for a straight-up WoW-style "sweet this is same but with +1 Shot!" moment, but they should be few and far between. What you want to happen often is for players to find a gun and think "hmm I lose a Shot if I use this gun, but I gain +1 Damage ... but I get extra Shots when I kill dudes so armor-penetration might be better in the long run than the extra dice. Plus it has an extra socket. Oh but it's not tech, and therefore can't benefit from the Doc's gadget Upgrade. Also, I generate Grit pretty fast and being able to Grit an extra Shot more often is important too. Plus I get more XP for more Shots that connect; but I'll connect more often with the +1 Damage! I'm also in a posse with 2 badges, and +2 Shots with +1 damage is better than +2 Shots without... " and so on.

^^^ That's gameplay, right there. That's what you want.

You can solve the rest by putting steep requirements on some of the better gear you DO find, which they have started to do ("Requires 4+ Spirit" for example). This at least forces you try to find a way to keep it until you fulfill the requirements, or let it go (choices).

This all being said, I wouldn't mind another extremely rare tier of loot beyond Artifacts ("Relics?") that kicked in at Level 7 - maybe for the expansion which allows you to go beyond Level 8. It can just be one deck of cards, and every time you would find an Artifact you roll a D8 and on a 8 (can't be D6, cause Gold Ring) you draw a Relic instead. Other than that, I'm perfectly happy with the system they have going.

- Jee

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Turner
Australia
Melbourne
VIC
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, where Myth lacks (character level ups) mechanisms, it has both scaled loot, and the "trescure bag" where you pull to see what tier of loot you get.

So you could forseeably build something into a Hexcrawl style narrative that takes batches of cards (Monsters, gear / artefacts related to monsters, perhaps even some of the better town upgrades) and unlocks them based on some scenerios (e.g. after a certain tough scenario, which ends with a final portal into Cavern of Cinder for the boss fight, now a whole bunch of Cavern's based stuff gets shuffled into the decks, and the caverns become an "unlocked" other world too.)

So tying together deck expansions along with the new locations all unlocked as part of an ongoing campaign. Oh dear, I just realise I've totally plagurised Pathfinder ACG here, more than the Myth Loot bag (which also improves via quests). Ah well, there's my half-baked thoughts !
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Friedmutant
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ScottE wrote:
There's so many good RPG designers out there that could help design one.


Yep. I'd love to see FFP doing something official with HexCrawl, including remuneration or hiring of Paddirn.

I'm hoping that the third core set coming up will be like SoB 2.0 and have lots of errata, clarifications, and story improvements that can be shared across all of SoB.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Johan Örtman
Sweden
Malmö
Skåne
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DSteak wrote:
Totally agree with Daniel.

Perhaps for regular encounters, if you do draw a loot or artifact card, you only draw from the green deck. During final encounters, you add the blue deck to the green deck. During boss fights, you add the purple deck as well.

Another option is you roll (yeah more rolling!) every time you draw a gear or artifact card. 1, 2, 3 is green deck; 4 is blue deck; 5 is purple deck. And maybe if you roll a 6, you get to roll one more time for another 6 which lets you draw from the orange deck. The problem I see with this system is I'd still feel guilty if during my first quest I was drawing from the purple or orange deck.




I like it. Perhaps throw a level cap into the mix? Lowest level character dictates the cap, 1-3 you can only draw from the green deck, level 4 you open up for the blue deck and so on. When you're fighting a boss or having an end game battle you could let them draw from a deck that's one level higher.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.