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Song of Blades and Heroes» Forums » Rules

Subject: 20mm minis and small vs large sticks rss

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Stephan Beal
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Hi, all,

per the SHB book (v5):

Quote:
For 15mm or smaller models, use the following lengths:
Short 50mm, Medium 80mm, Long 120mm
For 20mm or larger models, use the following lengths:
Short 75mm, Medium 120mm, Long 180mm


Note the border between "small" (5/8/12cm) and "large" (7.5/12/180cm) scales.

While doing some measurements on my minis, for purposes of creating bases for them, i stumbled across the following:

- 20mm is exactly 2/3rds of 30mm.

- The "small" scale's sticks are exactly 2/3rds of the "large" scale's sticks.

i.e. 20mm minis should be using the "small" sticks, not the "large" ones.

Doing the math:

- 30mm scale = 5mm per scale foot

- 20mm scale = ~3.33mm per scale foot

(Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniature_figure_(gaming)#Scal... (BGG markup can't parse that properly))

If we plug in those numbers to the "small" and "large" sticks, we get exactly the same measurements:

- large-scale sticks at 30mm scale are 15, 24, and 36 scale feet.

- small-scale sticks at 20mm scale are 15, 24, and 36 scale feet.

i.e. The Math says the manual is wrong in that regard, and that 20mm minis should use the smaller sticks.

i propose that we interpret that section of the manual as:

Quote:
For 20mm or smaller models, use the following lengths:
Short 50mm, Medium 80mm, Long 120mm
For 25mm or larger models, use the following lengths:
Short 75mm, Medium 120mm, Long 180mm


(That assumes there are no 21-24mm scales (indeed, Wikipedia doesn't mention any).)

Actually, 25mm scale, with ~4.17mm per scale foot, is precisely between 20mm and 30mm scales, so 25mm could go either way (but i would likely use the longer sticks with it).
 
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Expect the rules were originally written for 15mm scale for the small sticks with the large sticks being added later with 25mm minis in mind. You're starting your math from the wrong place. The 2/3rd is coming from the rough difference between 15 and 25.
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Stephan Beal
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cormor321 wrote:
Expect the rules were originally written for 15mm scale for the small sticks with the large sticks being added later with 25mm minis in mind. You're starting your math from the wrong place. The 2/3rd is coming from the rough difference between 15 and 25.


That may be, but 15 is an even 3/5ths of 25, not 2/3rds, so i'm not fully convinced that the two scales were based on that calculation.

It may be that 30mm is primarily prevalent in paper minis (which is all that i use). In that context, i still assert that using the longer sticks is "wrong" for 20mm minis. (FWIW, the current SBH KS project, "Axe and Brimstone", uses 28mm scale.)

FWIW, rather than print my paper minis at full size, i use the "two pages per sheet" option, which converts them to "very close" to 2/3rds of their original size (~20mm).
 
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Marc Gacy
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For me, the space I'm playing in is more important than the size of the minis (especially since I have a ton of irregularly based minis so I use a predefined 'base' size of 1" and 2/3" for each size).

I'd say if your playing field is smaller than 3' by 3' then you should probably use the smaller sticks, even if the minis seem a little big.

If you're 3'x3' or bigger and you still have normal warband sizes (i.e. you're not playing a larger scale skirmish with small minis, then I'd use the larger sticks.
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James K
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amg100 wrote:
For me, the space I'm playing in is more important than the size of the minis (especially since I have a ton of irregularly based minis so I use a predefined 'base' size of 1" and 2/3" for each size).

I'd say if your playing field is smaller than 3' by 3' then you should probably use the smaller sticks, even if the minis seem a little big.

If you're 3'x3' or bigger and you still have normal warband sizes (i.e. you're not playing a larger scale skirmish with small minis, then I'd use the larger sticks.


This is how I do it too. I play on a space quite small so just use the smaller stick lengths. Even in 20mm. However I have just made the change to 6mm, which will help the games look more realistic.
 
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sgbeal wrote:

That may be, but 15 is an even 3/5ths of 25, not 2/3rds, so i'm not fully convinced that the two scales were based on that calculation.


15mm may be an even 3/5th of 25mm, the same doesn't hold true to 15mm scale miniatures versus 25mm scale miniatures though.
 
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