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Subject: A question about theme rss

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Michael Pevzner
Israel
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So I've read about this game and looked at the video reviews, and there's something that bothers me and I didn't see anyone commenting on it - and that's the attitude towards punks as though they're an absolute and ultimate evil, destroying the city and bringing chaos. Punk is a legitimate subculture (not to mention a musical genre), and I can't help but find this a little offensive (although I'm not a punk myself, and I don't even enjoy the music that much).
I though maybe it's meant to be humorous, but the rest of the game doesn't seem humorous and the kickstarter video seemed to take itself seriously.
I mean, the first time I saw this game, I thought, "oh, that's like reverse Oneupmanship, some old conservatives lashing out at 'punks' as the source of all evil in the world", but then I saw that no, seems to be a legitimate game.

Another weird thing is the Engineer breaking bad to become the Cyberpunk, which is just... I don't know. It helps support the argument that the game is humorous, I guess, but it's the only science-fictional element in there, which stands out jarringly.

Am I missing something here?
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Kevin B. Smith
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Police Precinct(2013) had "street punks" as an evil force you had to take care of, and they often got shortened to "punks".

I doubt either game meant to slam punk music (is that still around?). I'm not familiar enough with punk culture to have an opinion on that, and I suspect that's true of a lot of people of a certain age. (I won't hazard a guess about the age one must be to be out of touch with punk culture.) It could also be quite a different situation in the US vs. Europe or elsewhere.
 
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Giller
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Punk was originally a word used to describe a person that was deemed to have no worth, far before the punk music and subculture. The Punk subculture gained a reputation, at its start, for fitting the original description. I feel that no matter what label is used, besides a generic "evil", is going to offend someone.
 
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Michael Pevzner
Israel
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Vospire wrote:
Punk was originally a word used to describe a person that was deemed to have no worth, far before the punk music and subculture. The Punk subculture gained a reputation, at its start, for fitting the original description.

That's true, but the game's graphics make it pretty explicit what "punks" are being referred to. And generally speaking, there are many words that once meant something else, that doesn't mean one can just ignore their current meaning.

Vospire wrote:
I feel that no matter what label is used, besides a generic "evil", is going to offend someone.

Could have used "criminals" or "hoodlums". Could have gone a little more tongue-in-cheek (as I've said, I'm still not entirely sure whether that's what they meant or not to begin with) and called them "criminal elements".
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Jim P
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But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you… And I will beat you.
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Goodness, It's just a game and it will not influence anyone's perception of current day "Punks." I never even thought of this meaning till this thread. My first thought was the Webster meaning of the word. ("a usually petty gangster, hoodlum, or ruffian")

I'm part Italian, grandfather straight off the boat, should I be upset with all the mafia games/movies? No. I'm also part German, should I be angered that most games with an evil element depicts the bad guys with German uniforms from the two world wars? No. Oh and my grandmother was Irish, should I be offended that nearly all drunks are depicted as Irish? No.

Why? Because if I were I would be going around being offended about everything.

Sorry for the rant but there are more pressing things in life to worry about than if the game portrays Punks (the original meaning) as bad guys.

Oh and I live outside of Detroit, where the games inspiration comes from, maybe I should be offended by this too. No. I will be buying this game when it hits our local store.
 
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Jim P
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But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you… And I will beat you.
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Vospire wrote:
Punk was originally a word used to describe a person that was deemed to have no worth, far before the punk music and subculture. The Punk subculture gained a reputation, at its start, for fitting the original description. I feel that no matter what label is used, besides a generic "evil", is going to offend someone.


It is still around, but seems to be more the Goth movement. My nephew did the whole Punk/Goth thing. He still gets dressed up from time to time. he is now working at a professional job. He dresses in proper attire but still has the colored hair. The top manager told him he wished he had the nerve to color his hair. Too funny.
 
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Reed Dawley
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As someone whose favorite band is still The Ramones but never felt the need to dress up in punk attire I don't see the issue. The whole idea of being a punk is being an outsider, at least it was to the people I know who made themselves safety-pincushions with tight plaid pants and leathers and a need to thumb their nose at everything(as a group, effectively homogenized anarchy which is funny in and of itself). I will admit that at that time I felt a Glasgow Kiss was a good way to deal with annoying people, but as we age we learn. I still think they would be delighted to be portrayed as a malignant force wrecking the status quo.

Punk music is still my favorite genre, it has a hyperkinetic tone that gets me moving like nothing else does. I can imagine cleaning up around the house to Beethoven but Rancid puts a little spring in my step. I am not offended in any way, I think it is funny and fitting.
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Robert Mattox
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First off- I'm sorry I didn't see this thread until now. I don't know how to turn on a setting to notify me when conversations start. Second- I'm not sure if I should chime in on this, being that it's a year later and that I might make things worse. But worse still, I don't want anyone to think I was ignoring them on this. So- the original "bad guy" was called a "thug." Before we went to playtesting, it became obvious to me that "thug" was now a racial term being directed to black people. That was not the intent at all. So we scratched that. We looked at all terms that might work, including criminal and hoodlum but those didn't seem to be as catchy. "Punk" just seemed more in your face and fun. Yes, the game is serious, but we want it to be fun too. I like all people including punks and punk culture is very interesting. So, I hope that helps. Thanks for looking into this. By the way- the game just arrived and I'll be sending it to game stores and Amazon soon. They price will be the same everywhere - $39.99 (unless stores discount the product which is out of my control). See you soon.
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