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Holland '44: Operation Market-Garden» Forums » General

Subject: First foray rss

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Peter Collins
Canada
Prince Rupert
British Columbia
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I've never played one of Mr. Simonitch's designs, that I'm aware of. I've been looking for a Marget-Garden game for some time, but have been intimidated by the number and complexity of monster-game titles that are out there. On the other hand the VPG offerings seem too light for my tastes.

Based on map size, number of counters and my limited perception of rules complexity, I have a feeling that this title could hit the sweet spot that I've been looking for.

Can anyone experienced with this system in particular, or Mr. Simonitch's games in general, tell me if I've bit off more than I can chew?

For what it's worth, I've already preordered it, so one way or another I'll find out the answer to my question.
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Mike Oberly
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I don't know how much you can chew, but these are medium complexity games, with a fair amount of chrome. Mark uses his combat results tables (CRT's) to provide some tactical detail and flavor, and it works quite well. I don't think the games are too detailed or complicated for anyone who wants to learn them.

I'd suggest looking over the rules to one of the other games, Normandy '44, for example, to get an idea. I think Ardennes '44 (a fine game) is the most complicated of them. I don't know how Holland will stack up, but my guess is that it might be slightly less rules heavy than Normandy, but in that general ballpark.
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Peter Collins
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Prince Rupert
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Thanks Mike.

My impression is that this will be something like a 6 or 7 on the old Avalon Hill scale (Anzio, perhaps, or The Game of France, 1940: German Blitzkrieg in the West).

Am I in the ballpark?
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Mike Oberly
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I'd say Anzio, roughly, isn't a bad comp. Maybe a 4 or 5 on AH's old difficulty scale. As I recall, Anzio was a '4' on that scale. These games are not really difficult, the rules consulting mainly comes from the chrome, in my experience. I do think Mark employs just the right amount of chromey rules in his games, though...just enough for the proper flavor without being annoying.
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Peter Collins
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Prince Rupert
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Well that's great. Now I'm getting excited.

In any case, $35 and shipping seems a reasonable price to try it out.

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Mike Oberly
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They are really good games, for people who like hex and counter wargames. I think they are modern classics. If you like this one (when it is released), definitely check out the others - especially Ardennes '44.
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Rob Francis
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Aberystwyth
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“"To Aetius, now consul for the third time: the groans of the Britons ... The barbarians drive us to the sea; the sea throws us back on the barbarians: thus two modes of death await us, we are either slain or drowned".” ―Gildas
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MikeOberly wrote:
They are really good games, for people who like hex and counter wargames. I think they are modern classics. If you like this one (when it is released), definitely check out the others - especially Ardennes '44.


Seconded. I think they're simply fantastic, especially the battalion level games (Normandy, Ardennes).
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Shane
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MikeOberly wrote:
They are really good games, for people who like hex and counter wargames. I think they are modern classics. If you like this one (when it is released), definitely check out the others - especially Ardennes '44.

And let's get those Ardennes '44 reprint P500 numbers up!! It's taking a while. I own N'44, and have also signed up for Holland '44.
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Andrew Burgoyne

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I see there is a shorter 10 turn scenario. Any rough estimates out there on how long something like that would take to play?
 
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