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Subject: Rapid Mobilization during combat? rss

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Tyrant Lobe
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This is my first playthrough of the game and came into a situation where I don't know the answer. Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere, but I couldn't find it:

I was playing the Rebels and my base was unrevealed. My opponent entered the system and landed ground troops, revealing the base. We engaged in a round of combat, during which I realized there was no way I was going to survive the battle if I stayed to fight. I had Rapid Mobilization in my mission hand, but had not assigned any leaders to it during the Assignment Phase.

I have several questions related to this:
1. Is Rapid Mobilization only used during the Assignment Phase like other mission cards?
2. If not, can it be used by the Rebel player during combat, essentially to escape the destruction of the current Rebel base?
3. If it can, I assume the Rebel player must have an unassigned leader in the Leader Pool that has at least one Logistics skill icon in order to use it, correct?

Again, sorry for the newbie question, but the rules aren't totally clear and I couldn't find an answer anywhere else.

Thanks!
 
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Craig S.
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You must assign leaders to RM in the assignment phase, like any other mission. When you reveal it during the command phase, leaders assigned to it are placed in the base space and the card is resolved at the end of the command phase (both sides have passed).
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Tyrant Lobe
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Ok, so let me ask this: if the Empire shows up with a larger force and reveals the Rebel Base, is there any way for the Rebel player to escape and live to fight another day, or is it just game over?
 
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TyrantLobe wrote:
Ok, so let me ask this: if the Empire shows up with a larger force and reveals the Rebel Base, is there any way for the Rebel player to escape and live to fight another day, or is it just game over?


If at the end of that battle the Rebels has won either the space or ground theatre, then yes. They can live to fight for another turn (unless still beaten by other actions this turn).
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Tyrant Lobe
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I'm wondering this for thematic reasons, established by the movies themselves. In Empire Strikes Back, the Empire shows up on Hoth. The Rebels are completely overmatched and are trying to buy time to evacuate before they are completely overwhelmed, which they manage to do. In the movie scenario, the Empire took the base, but the Rebels escaped to continue the fight.

Just trying to figure out if the Rebel player can achieve the same thing in the game. Other than the Rebels winning space and/or ground combat, is there a way for the Rebels to escape during combat from the revealed base and setup elsewhere?

(Well, maybe not just thematic reasons: I was trying desperately to find a way to avoid losing to my 8-year old son...)
 
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Tim Garrett
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TyrantLobe wrote:
I'm wondering this for thematic reasons, established by the movies themselves. In Empire Strikes Back, the Empire shows up on Hoth. The Rebels are completely overmatched and are trying to buy time to evacuate before they are completely overwhelmed, which they manage to do. In the movie scenario, the Empire took the base, but the Rebels escaped to continue the fight.

Just trying to figure out if the Rebel player can achieve the same thing in the game. Other than the Rebels winning space and/or ground combat, is there a way for the Rebels to escape during combat from the revealed base and setup elsewhere?


So, the game's rules actually do mirror the movies' events very well: the way to think about it is that as soon as Han tells Reikkan about the probe droid he shot down, the Rebellion knows that their base has been found and that they need to relocate. By the time the Empire showed up, in game terms, the rebels' leadership was safe and its base had already formally been moved- it's just a question of whether or not the Rebel forces on Hoth would survive or be overrun. Thanks to bad Imperial luck and good card playing from Reikkan, most ground forces make it out while the ion cannon prevents the star destroyers from eliminating the rebel transports.

In-game, the way it works is that the Rebels need to gauge how likely it is that their base will be attacked (and overrun)- not that turn, but the next turn. It keeps the rebels on their toes. If the Empire has an enormous army one system away from the base, and the Rebels neglect to escape while they have the chance, it's hardly the game's fault!

Does that make sense? I have my own issues with the way the game's mechanics interfere with what we see in the movies, but I think this element is captured pretty well.
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Tyrant Lobe
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Garriath wrote:
So, the game's rules actually do mirror the movies' events very well: the way to think about it is that as soon as Han tells Reikkan about the probe droid he shot down, the Rebellion knows that their base has been found and that they need to relocate. By the time the Empire showed up, in game terms, the rebels' leadership was safe and its base had already formally been moved- it's just a question of whether or not the Rebel forces on Hoth would survive or be overrun. Thanks to bad Imperial luck and good card playing from Reikkan, most ground forces make it out while the ion cannon prevents the star destroyers from eliminating the rebel transports.

In-game, the way it works is that the Rebels need to gauge how likely it is that their base will be attacked (and overrun)- not that turn, but the next turn. It keeps the rebels on their toes. If the Empire has an enormous army one system away from the base, and the Rebels neglect to escape while they have the chance, it's hardly the game's fault!

Does that make sense? I have my own issues with the way the game's mechanics interfere with what we see in the movies, but I think this element is captured pretty well.


Yeah, OK, I can see that. I guess it's true, I really should have been ready to use Rapid Mobilization when the Empire was in an adjacent system. Excellent point. Thanks very much!

...outsmarted by an 8-year old...
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Craig S.
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To match the game with the movie, the best you can do is this: The Rebels had assigned RM during the assignment phase. During the command phase, the Empire lands troops on Hoth and begins the invasion. Rebels lose the ground battle, but they win the space battle with the help of the ion cannon. Then at the end of the command phase, RM is resolved and the base is moved.

It doesn't perfectly match up with the movie because in the movie the rebels retreat everything and leave the empire in full control of the system, which in the game is an Empire victory.The game mechanics cannot duplicate the movie events perfectly.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Right, in game mechanics, here's how the Battle of Hoth would be represented...

Turn 1:
Assignment Phase:
A: Rebels assigned a leader or leaders to Rapid Mobilization (fearing detection)

Command Phase:
A: Rebels revealed Rapid Mobilization (this could actually come after B).
B: Imperials attack, and some ships retreat, but the Rebel ground troops repel the ground forces.
C: At the end of the Phase, Rapid Mobilization resolves and the base is moved.

Turn 2:
Command Phase:
A: Imperials attack again and wipe out remaining force on Hoth.


In other words, there's no way the story from the movie can play out in a single turn. The fact that Rapid Mobilization doesn't resolve until the end of the Command Phase means you have to be able to survive that full Phase before the base is allowed to move. You also need to predict your usage of it in the Assignment Phase, as it is very hard to get into play otherwise (unless you instead happened to use Contingency Plan).

Edit: Interesting that we had similar ideas, Craig, but I went for them winning the ground battle (first wave of AT-ATs), as we know the space theater was occupied the whole time...
 
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Craig S.
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Clipper wrote:


Edit: Interesting that we had similar ideas, Craig, but I went for them winning the ground battle (first wave of AT-ATs), as we know the space theater was occupied the whole time...


Yeah, I was trying to think of the best way to fit the narrative into a single turn. Your way works better as a match for the movie.
 
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Tim Garrett
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Hm- I read it a little bit differently:


Turn "1":
1. The Empire has a large fleet in a neighboring system, let's say Mustafar.
2. The Empire, through the "Long Range Probe" mission, establishes that the base is in that region. The empire's already drawn Endor and Bespin, so they know that the base is in Hoth.
3. The rebels reveal Rapid Mobilization.

Then, at the end of the phase, the rebels move their base. In the process, all their existing garrison- which represents the bulk of their troops- are revealed in the Hoth system.

Turn "2":
1. The Empire, using Ozzel, moves its Star Destroyers to Hoth, blockading the planet.
2. The rebels, guessing what will happen next, plays the Base Defences mission, "activating" a shield generator and ion cannon on its base.
3. General Veers launches his planetary assault mission, launching a ground battle on Hoth and exposing the Rebel base. However, the rebel transports, thanks to the ion cannon, manage to survive a round against the star destroyers, and good card playing preserves most of the rebels' ground forces. At the end of the first round, Reiikan retreats, presumably to Bespin.
2. The Rebels then play Rapid Mobilization again, which, at the end of the phase they use to transport what's left of the Hoth army to the new hidden base.
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Craig S.
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That works, for sure. I think Clip and I were focused on framing the narrative around the question being asked by the OP, which involves the base being discovered by a ground invasion, rather than the base being moved before that invasion happens.
 
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Doug DeMoss
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Garriath wrote:
Hm- I read it a little bit differently:


Turn "1":
1. The Empire has a large fleet in a neighboring system, let's say Mustafar.
2. The Empire, through the "Long Range Probe" mission, establishes that the base is in that region. The empire's already drawn Endor and Bespin, so they know that the base is in Hoth.
3. The rebels reveal Rapid Mobilization.

Then, at the end of the phase, the rebels move their base. In the process, all their existing garrison- which represents the bulk of their troops- are revealed in the Hoth system.

Turn "2":
1. The Empire, using Ozzel, moves its Star Destroyers to Hoth, blockading the planet.
2. The rebels, guessing what will happen next, plays the Base Defences mission, "activating" a shield generator and ion cannon on its base.
3. General Veers launches his planetary assault mission, launching a ground battle on Hoth and exposing the Rebel base. However, the rebel transports, thanks to the ion cannon, manage to survive a round against the star destroyers, and good card playing preserves most of the rebels' ground forces. At the end of the first round, Reiikan retreats, presumably to Bespin.
2. The Rebels then play Rapid Mobilization again, which, at the end of the phase they use to transport what's left of the Hoth army to the new hidden base.


That doesn't work. The Empire wins after the retreat at the end of turn 2, step 3.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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demoss1 wrote:
That doesn't work. The Empire wins after the retreat at the end of turn 2, step 3.

You forgot that the base was moved in turn 1, before the battle even started. Turn 2 is a battle over the ex-base with the units trying to escape to the new one.
 
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Doug DeMoss
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Clipper wrote:
demoss1 wrote:
That doesn't work. The Empire wins after the retreat at the end of turn 2, step 3.

You forgot that the base was moved in turn 1, before the battle even started. Turn 2 is a battle over the ex-base with the units trying to escape to the new one.


Ah, right. In that case, the Base Defense mission won't put a shield generator and ion cannon on Hoth, because the base isn't there any more.
 
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David Umstattd
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Garriath wrote:
TyrantLobe wrote:
I'm wondering this for thematic reasons, established by the movies themselves. In Empire Strikes Back, the Empire shows up on Hoth. The Rebels are completely overmatched and are trying to buy time to evacuate before they are completely overwhelmed, which they manage to do. In the movie scenario, the Empire took the base, but the Rebels escaped to continue the fight.

Just trying to figure out if the Rebel player can achieve the same thing in the game. Other than the Rebels winning space and/or ground combat, is there a way for the Rebels to escape during combat from the revealed base and setup elsewhere?


So, the game's rules actually do mirror the movies' events very well: the way to think about it is that as soon as Han tells Reikkan about the probe droid he shot down, the Rebellion knows that their base has been found and that they need to relocate. By the time the Empire showed up, in game terms, the rebels' leadership was safe and its base had already formally been moved- it's just a question of whether or not the Rebel forces on Hoth would survive or be overrun. Thanks to bad Imperial luck and good card playing from Reikkan, most ground forces make it out while the ion cannon prevents the star destroyers from eliminating the rebel transports.

In-game, the way it works is that the Rebels need to gauge how likely it is that their base will be attacked (and overrun)- not that turn, but the next turn. It keeps the rebels on their toes. If the Empire has an enormous army one system away from the base, and the Rebels neglect to escape while they have the chance, it's hardly the game's fault!

Does that make sense? I have my own issues with the way the game's mechanics interfere with what we see in the movies, but I think this element is captured pretty well.



No no no. You're right about the game representing the events well but not as you describe them.

What happened in the movies is the empire attacked, won the ground battle but lost the space battle. So at the end of the turn RM resolved and the base moved.

It's important to note that if the empire wins the ground battle but there are still rebel units in the space theater then the rebel base is not destroyed.
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Craig S.
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David Umstattd wrote:


What happened in the movies is the empire attacked, won the ground battle but lost the space battle. So at the end of the turn RM resolved and the base moved.



To be exact, what happened in the movie would be an Imperial victory in the game. In the movie, the Rebels retreat all forces from both theatres. This is an Imperial victory in Rebellion.

Clipper and I both laid out scenarios that involve the situation laid out by the OP, which is the rebel base being revealed by an Imperial ground invasion and then being moved at the end of the same command phase; this would require the rebels to win in at least one theatre. Clipper laid out the better one, I think, but the point is that what actually happened in the movie would be Imperial victory in a game of Rebellion.
 
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I mean, I don't think there is a "perfect" way to portray the Battle of Hoth completely accurately in the game, but here's another possibility, kind of an amalgam of some stuff floating around, particularly inspired by Garriah's outline.

Turn "1":
1. The Empire has a large fleet and many ground forces stationed on Bespin.
2. A single Star Destroyer on Bespin brings a single stormtrooper to Hoth (essentially a proxy for a Probe Droid, as this is sometimes a strategy used in game to reveal planets).
3. Rebel Base is revealed, ground forces defeat probe droid.
4. Rapid Mobilization is used, Rebel Base moved to secure system.


Turn "2":
1. The Empire uses Ozzel to move the remaining Star Destroyers at Bespin to Hoth.
2. The rebels play the Base Defences mission, "activating" a shield generator and ion cannon on its base.
3. Veers uses Planetary Assault, and causing the Battle of Hoth. As Garriah stated, the Ion Canon helps in keeping most of the transports safe, and while the Rebels do lose some troops on the ground, they minimize their losses as best as they can. At the end of the first round, Reiikan retreats to Mustafar.
4. The Rebels then play Rapid Mobilization again, which, at the end of the phase they use to transport what's left of the Hoth army to the new hidden base.
5. Obi-Wan goes to Dagobah to train to be a Jedi with Yoda for some reason, reminding us that we're still playing Star Wars Rebellion.
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Tyrant Lobe
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All your posts have been very helpful, and exposed the flaw in my thinking with the original question: Rather than trying to figure out how the Rebels escape when engaged in combat on the revealed base... the goal is to avoid that combat altogether. Stay ahead of the Empire and be ready to flee when you feel the heat coming.

It also appears there are some scenarios where Rapid Mobilization could be used to escape combat, if setup properly in advance, and with some luck.

Does it follow the movies thematically? Yes and no. But it is still a game with rules that can't simulate everything in the movies exactly, and that's fine.
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Craig S.
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TyrantLobe wrote:
It also appears there are some scenarios where Rapid Mobilization could be used to escape combat, if setup properly in advance, and with some luck.



It can only help you escape a combat that the Empire plans to initiate during the round after RM is revealed. Remember that RM is resolved at the end of the entire command phase during which it is revealed, after both sides have passed.
 
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Tyrant Lobe
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csouth154 wrote:
TyrantLobe wrote:
It also appears there are some scenarios where Rapid Mobilization could be used to escape combat, if setup properly in advance, and with some luck.



It can only help you escape a combat that the Empire plans to initiate during the round after RM is revealed. Remember that RM is resolved at the end of the entire command phase during which it is revealed, after both sides have passed.


Right right. Avoidance is the key. Lesson learned.
 
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