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Ashes: Rise of the Phoenixborn» Forums » General

Subject: State of Ashes Address rss

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John Smith
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Hi folks,

Some news on Ashes on the Plaid Hat Games site:

http://www.plaidhatgames.com/news/745

"The reason for poor supply of Ashes is because the game continues to surpass F2Z’s buyer’s expectations for what expansions to a product should sell...

"Additionally, we have been unhappy with the fulfillment company we have used in the EU for the latest Ashes shipments. We will seek to have our management hire a different EU fulfillment team in the future...

"As many of you probably know F2Z is in discussions to sell their company to Asmodee. Because of these discussions we have chosen to delay the release of the upcoming expansions and op kit."

What do you make of the full post? Just a few snippets above, please see the whole of the news:
http://www.plaidhatgames.com/news/745

I was frustrated by lack of availability in the UK of the first two expansions and was going to give up on it, but I found them in stock at Philibert in France and I really would hate to give up on the game with my favourite art! I have the third and fourth preordered.
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Paul Newsham
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"As many of you probably know F2Z is in discussions to sell their company to Asmodee. Because of these discussions we have chosen to delay the release of the upcoming expansions and op kit."

That's the part I don't like. Someone somewhere is having a conversation about overlap in their product line.
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Daily Grind
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Tarnop wrote:
That's the part I don't like. Someone somewhere is having a conversation about overlap in their product line.

Possibly... or it could mean they'd rather have the benefit of post-buyout distribution channels. Fingers crossed.
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Charles Fox
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As m6ch i love ashes, it sounds like the game will probably go dead, or it will go under the ffg lcg model of shoving out expansions every month. I will be happy with what i got if it goes dead, but if it goes to expansions every month, i will sell what i got and bail out. One reason i got the game was cause of the expected expansion release schedule.
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Jason Rupp
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PHG has been pretty bad with any game they release that ends up doing well. They had a heck of a time with Dead of Winter for the longest time.
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Yannick Carriere
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I'm quite nervous too. There's definitely talk at the top. One one hand, Asmodee would have 2-3 success games on their hands, and on the other hand they'd want to possibly change the economic model of those games to get a return on their investment. That can mean many things. If indeed Ashes goes to a monthly expansions model, I'm also out.

I'm equally nervous that Asmodee will look down their new catalogue of games and slash the ones that don't fit their economic model to concentrate on other ones. Ashes might be slashed.

Keeping my fingers crossed.
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Pete R.
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Very interesting. As a new fan totally buying in, I'm extremely nervous for the future. Although, I'm very happy with what has been released so far.

I'm not famalir with the term "OP kit" - can someone please explain it to me. Thanks.
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Michael Pittman
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Organised Play Kit. Usually promos and similar to give away at tournaments or similar events.
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Pete R.
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DreadFool wrote:
Organised Play Kit. Usually promos and similar to give away at tournaments or similar events.


Thanks!
 
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Donny Behne
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godzilla999666 wrote:
As m6ch i love ashes, it sounds like the game will probably go dead, or it will go under the ffg lcg model of shoving out expansions every month. I will be happy with what i got if it goes dead, but if it goes to expansions every month, i will sell what i got and bail out. One reason i got the game was cause of the expected expansion release schedule.


There's zero evidence to support this claim. Zilch. I recommend avoiding the assumption.
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Mark Meyer
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I see a lot of good in the future. I know that Ashes is talked about, and played, at the FFG Game Center with high regard. For all intents and purposes this is an LCG type game. Isaac himself has used the term. With the future of F2Z up in the air it makes sense to hold all plans until every one knows what directions will be available.

Asmodee has made some very good choices with Days of Wonder and FFG. I think F2Z will benefit if this deal comes together.
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John Smith
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Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Donny, I read Charles' post as an opinion, not a claim?

Well I think I am in for the long-haul, come what may, so long as the art looks as good to me and they keep the quality up! I mean, if it were to go monthly, would that mean, new artists? For me, the art is the biggest draw. I already have plenty of card games! (My final Doomtown has just arrived in town)

Though I do feel for the folks who thought they were buying a slow release, should things get ramped up...

Better availability in Europe would be nice! Philibert seem to be out of stock now of those first two expansions.



I wouldn't mind an easier way to get hold of the promos.

I personally can't see the plug being pulled on Ashes, when it appears they were happy with base sales and have been surprised by the level of uptake of the expansions. And I imagine there could be expansions with a wider appeal than those first two.

kelann08 wrote:
godzilla999666 wrote:
As m6ch i love ashes, it sounds like the game will probably go dead, or it will go under the ffg lcg model of shoving out expansions every month. I will be happy with what i got if it goes dead, but if it goes to expansions every month, i will sell what i got and bail out. One reason i got the game was cause of the expected expansion release schedule.


There's zero evidence to support this claim. Zilch. I recommend avoiding the assumption.
 
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Donny Behne
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blackmeeple wrote:
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Donny, I read Charles' post as an opinion, not a claim?


I read it as a two choice assumption, neither of which has any merit. The game either dies or becomes an FFG LCG with monthly releases. The former is something PHG will fight tooth and nail and we have no precedent to assume the latter. Neither has been mentioned or hinted at. I just know how people like to read things piecemeal here and that's how rumors get started. Felt like a moment to quash it hard and hope people read the follow up.
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Skaak
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kelann08 wrote:
blackmeeple wrote:
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Donny, I read Charles' post as an opinion, not a claim?


I read it as a two choice assumption, neither of which has any merit. The game either dies or becomes an FFG LCG with monthly releases. The former is something PHG will fight tooth and nail and we have no precedent to assume the latter. Neither has been mentioned or hinted at. I just know how people like to read things piecemeal here and that's how rumors get started. Felt like a moment to quash it hard and hope people read the follow up.


This little gem from the article linked in the first post seems rather apropos:

"For you vocal defenders in the various places that Ashes is being discussed. We need you to understand that your attempts to create solidarity can cause the prosecutors to feel unheard and ganged up on. Part of creating a healthy Ashes is making as many people as possible feel welcome in Ashes communities both online and in the meat space."
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Donny Behne
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Skaak wrote:
kelann08 wrote:
blackmeeple wrote:
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Donny, I read Charles' post as an opinion, not a claim?


I read it as a two choice assumption, neither of which has any merit. The game either dies or becomes an FFG LCG with monthly releases. The former is something PHG will fight tooth and nail and we have no precedent to assume the latter. Neither has been mentioned or hinted at. I just know how people like to read things piecemeal here and that's how rumors get started. Felt like a moment to quash it hard and hope people read the follow up.


This little gem from the article linked in the first post seems rather apropos:

"For you vocal defenders in the various places that Ashes is being discussed. We need you to understand that your attempts to create solidarity can cause the prosecutors to feel unheard and ganged up on. Part of creating a healthy Ashes is making as many people as possible feel welcome in Ashes communities both online and in the meat space."


That doesn't qualify, Skaak.

Attempting to provide clarity, to both the person the post was directed to, and to future readers who may misunderstand, is not piling on, especially if it's only one person (traditionally piles are multiple people). It's also not defending Ashes. It's quelling a rumor before it begins. Next thing you see is someone declaring the game dead because they read someone made that assumption. Working on facts, not suppositions, is the best path forward.
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Joe Stude
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I own just the core set so far and have been a little surprised that not only is the base game out of stock at nearly every FLGS I've been to in the Metro Detroit area, but I've yet to see any of the expansion content on shelves. For a game doing as well as they purport this seems really odd.
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Paul Newsham
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Jowjow wrote:
For a game doing as well as they purport this seems really odd.


"As well as they purport" seems to mean popular enough to immediately sell out the inexplicably small print runs that F2Z order.
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John Smith
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I'm looking at Charles' games list, and I am seeing:

- Everything Ashes so far (I want those promos!)
- Dead of Winter
- Seafall
- Spectre Ops
- A ton of Summoner Wars (I am so jealous!)

All Plaid Hat Games titles. Nice collection, Charles! Is that all of Doomtown? Kingdom Death Monster?

I can't speak for Plaid Hat, but I would try to keep Charles sweet if he were my customer.

meeple

Anyway, a few of my favourite UK stores are saying, Duchess of Deception and Roaring Rose may turn up tomorrow. My fingers are crossed!

F2Z - are these the folks I need to beg to see reprints of Merchants & Marauders: Seas of Glory and Clash of Cultures: Civilizations? My two biggest gaming regrets are not buying those expansions!!
 
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Charles Fox
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kelann08 wrote:
blackmeeple wrote:
Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Donny, I read Charles' post as an opinion, not a claim?


I read it as a two choice assumption, neither of which has any merit. The game either dies or becomes an FFG LCG with monthly releases. The former is something PHG will fight tooth and nail and we have no precedent to assume the latter. Neither has been mentioned or hinted at. I just know how people like to read things piecemeal here and that's how rumors get started. Felt like a moment to quash it hard and hope people read the follow up.


i was stating my opinion on how i read tne article and what the articule portends. There was no rumor to squash, and bs having to squash it hard. I think the reason for this thread was to have people opinion on the news and on ashes in genereal. The bad news in the entire deal is that Plaid hat is the low man on the totem pole. They have to answer to F2z, who soon will be answering to Asomedee. I trust Plaid Hat and love the company, but i do not trust Asomedee or F2Z. It has already been stated elsewhere that an expansion to Spector Ops was planned by Plaid Hat, but squashed by F2Z.

So Donny what is your opinion on what the article means for the future of Ashes?
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Bloody Cactus
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I cant see it becoming a FFG LCG. it would compete directly with the Asmodee cash cow that is the Star Wars license (destiny card+dice game).. and going monthly like all the other lcgs would mean the art would change style/quality (for the worse imo) to pump stuff out.

the strangest thing to me is the business decision to do nothing.. that boggles my mind.

taking a hiatus is like a death knell.
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Mark Meyer
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I doubt that Asmodee would move Ashes to FFG unless they choose to shut down Plaid Hat altogether. That said once the deal is done I can see them giving PHG the ability to use the LCG label to market Ashes. It does qualify as an LCG in that, which a single purchase, you get all the cards necessary to play without chasing through boosters to find something.

As for the hiatus, it makes the most sense. Do you send something to production in small batches, as F2Z must do, causing disruptions in the supply chain when things sell out to fast and then go to a second run, at a new factory, with new management, unable to truly match the original run? Better to hold off and know what resources will be available then use them to your greatest advantage.
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Paul Newsham
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BloodyCactus wrote:
the strangest thing to me is the business decision to do nothing.. that boggles my mind.

taking a hiatus is like a death knell.


This is an excellent point. The way to prove that an expandable card game is alive and well is not to halt new releases.

The proposed release schedule after the first pair of expansions was 2 decks in July and a 4-deck expansion in November. Those July expansions are only just coming to retail here this week, and who knows when the next will be released.

Organised play support goes on hold and lest we forget, this is happening because of an attempted acquisition by a company that claims to be championing the local game stores that thrive on games like this
 
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BloodyCactus wrote:
the strangest thing to me is the business decision to do nothing.. that boggles my mind.


"We keep selling out of our product before it even hits the shelves, so we've decided to simply stop production."



Tarnop wrote:
This is an excellent point. The way to prove that an expandable card game is alive and well is not to halt new releases.


And meanwhile, the clock is always ticking. The Conquest LCG just got killed off, and there was a lot of interest in Ashes by Conquest players, but it's been a hard sell for me locally because of how things are up in the air right now (these constant delays, and now an explicit hold on production in particular is a huge red flag, regardless of what Plaid Hat says their intentions are).

So Ashes has arguably already missed the moment for a potential influx of converts, and with OP kits withheld indefinitely we're also SOL on the errata-ed cards and promo Phoenixborn (making getting into the game in any competitive fashion even more difficult, which is a big hindrance for my local scene). And on the horizon looms Legend of the Five Rings LCG, which based on local players and the Conquest forums is pretty hotly anticipated simply based on the L5R name alone (and if it's a legitimately great game, then it's an even greater threat to Ashes, because FFG has their act far more together when it comes to running a competitive scene to drive the game's growth).

I have no doubt that Ashes will continue on in some capacity as long as Plaid Hat can sustain it, but given their repeated fumbles with distribution and the uncertainty surrounding an Asmodee acquisition (which they are reinforcing), I'm pessimistic about personally having much reason to keep expanding past the current cardpool.

Which makes me really sad.
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Mark Meyer
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Within the statement they point out that work on the errata is moving forward along with a rules document for tournament, team, league play. All the things that can be done without knowing if you will be a small indie publisher or part of the largest production engine in the industry are happening and they are staying very active with the community on their own website.
 
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Robbie M.
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tekwych wrote:
Within the statement they point out that work on the errata is moving forward along with a rules document for tournament, team, league play. All the things that can be done without knowing if you will be a small indie publisher or part of the largest production engine in the industry are happening and they are staying very active with the community on their own website.

A spoiler or two wouldn't have hurt. Even just some art.
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