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Subject: A Game Very Similar to Up Front? rss

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Stephen Glenn
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Some time ago I remember reading about a cardgame that was very similar to Up Front, but more streamlined. For the life of me I cannot remember the game. Even looking through my history doesn't help much, because this was years ago.

Any help?

Thanks

 
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Christian Moura
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Frontline: D-Day?

I ultimately did not enjoy the game, and sold my copy.
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Fernando Robert Yu
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It is probably Attack Sub, which is designed by the same author. It uses the same concepts but is much simpler.
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Andrew Walters
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It's hard to guess what you heard referred to, since a lot of games have claimed to be similar to Up Front. Inevitably, they are second rate, war-themed card games. I would *love* it if there were a dozen card game like Up Front, but to my knowledge we live in a less-perfect world.

Attack Sub is a really good game. Totally different topic, but similar to Up Front in that it takes a little thought to see how the slightly odd mechanics map onto different aspects of combat. But then it captures the tension perfectly.

Do you remember anything else about this game that had the audacity to claim similarity to Up Front?
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Gary Logs
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I too suspect it was Frontline: D-Day. It is not the same experience but I've found it to have a lot of good playable range and depth in its own right. If UF never happened it might be more of a standard. I have both and like playing each.

[edit: I'm a big fan of Attack Sub!)
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Richard Irving
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Epee wrote:
Frontline: D-Day?

I ultimately did not enjoy the game, and sold my copy.


Frontline was not without some interesting ideas. The problem with game was the combat was WAY, WAY, WAY too bloody. Essentially the first effective shot usually won the game. (If they had "misses" in the combat resolution chit mix, the game would probably be much better.) Nearly any shot caused damage to the target and and usually shooter could be ready to reload and fire before the other player could effectively rally & respond.

UGH!

Apparently the next game was to be on Guadalcanal, but never got enough backers.
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Scott Key
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Attack Sub is the game. Many of the same fundamental concepts. by the same designer.


Great game.
 
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Francis K. Lalumiere
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rri1 wrote:
Epee wrote:
Frontline: D-Day?

I ultimately did not enjoy the game, and sold my copy.


Frontline was not without some interesting ideas. The problem with game was the combat was WAY, WAY, WAY too bloody. Essentially the first effective shot usually won the game. (If they had "misses" in the combat resolution chit mix, the game would probably be much better.) Nearly any shot caused damage to the target and and usually shooter could be ready to reload and fire before the other player could effectively rally & respond.

UGH!

Apparently the next game was to be on Guadalcanal, but never got enough backers.

Well said, Richard.

I really enjoyed the mechanism for combat resolution, and I hope to see it again -- in a less bloody form -- in a future game.
 
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Stephen Glenn
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Thanks for the replies!

It was indeed Front Line: D-Day. Thanks so much.

I will check out Attack Sub as well. Sounds fun.

 
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Stephen Glenn
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andreww wrote:

Do you remember anything else about this game that had the audacity to claim similarity to Up Front?




I don't know if the game (Frontline: D-Day) claimed similarity. I think it was the community who had the audacity.

I'm willing to believe that the game is ultimately inferior to Up Front. But I've tried to tackle the rules to UF many times to no avail. My skull is too thick for the rules to penetrate. I'm happy to accept an inferior product that I can actually play

(And Mike Fitzgerald rates it a 10, so there's that).

Have fun gaming!
Stephen
 
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Matt R
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Stephen Glenn wrote:
andreww wrote:

Do you remember anything else about this game that had the audacity to claim similarity to Up Front?




I don't know if the game (Frontline: D-Day) claimed similarity. I think it was the community who had the audacity.

I'm willing to believe that the game is ultimately inferior to Up Front. But I've tried to tackle the rules to UF many times to no avail. My skull is too thick for the rules to penetrate. I'm happy to accept an inferior product that I can actually play

(And Mike Fitzgerald rates it a 10, so there's that).

Have fun gaming!
Stephen


Stephen,
Up Front is hard to penetrate, but once you figure out its core concepts it really isn't difficult to play. There are some videos and there was another post on here that referenced an old "The General" magazine article stepped through a full playthrough of the game. I'd say keep plugging away at it...
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Erik Navander
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Noonespecial wrote:
...there was another post on here that referenced an old "The General" magazine article stepped through a full playthrough of the game. I'd say keep plugging away at it...


If anyone has scans of that playthrough I would very much appreciate a copy. I have trouble getting through the rule book. A playthrough would help figure out if the game is complex or if it´s just a complex rulebook.
 
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Matt R
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Check out this thread.
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Erik Navander
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Thanks, I'll look into it.
 
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Gary Logs
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rri1 wrote:
Epee wrote:
Frontline: D-Day?

I ultimately did not enjoy the game, and sold my copy.


Frontline was not without some interesting ideas. The problem with game was the combat was WAY, WAY, WAY too bloody. Essentially the first effective shot usually won the game. (If they had "misses" in the combat resolution chit mix, the game would probably be much better.) Nearly any shot caused damage to the target and and usually shooter could be ready to reload and fire before the other player could effectively rally & respond.

UGH!

Apparently the next game was to be on Guadalcanal, but never got enough backers.


My last play was using 456 misses and it helped open play up. I think I used 5-10 of them, not sure now.
 
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Abe Francis
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For me, the 'ohhhh' moment came from reading the PowerPoint tutorials on the webuf fan website (plenty of other resources to check out too). It's at http://webuf.eu/.

It is a great game and almost unique. I don't mind the rules if taken in small measure. The programmed instruction I think works better than Squad Leader's attempt 5 years prior. After you get the basics you can add as much chrome as you want. I've been playing with my dad and we have yet to crack the under 2 hour mark (more like 3), but I'm confident we will get to the sub-hour soon. It's actually pretty intuitive after you've got the basic concepts down as the rules adhere closely to the theme.

Another great article is 'an old fashioned card playing lesson' by the publisher Don Greenwood. It explains the significance of all the cards and how to use them. I believe it can be downloaded from BGG.

And Wow what a response. For a slow forum you got a lot of replies! Looks like everyone is entrenched with a -3 concealement!
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Abe Francis
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Here it is: https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/2484/general-21-1-playing....
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Matt R
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dr_sarcophagus wrote:
For me, the 'ohhhh' moment came from reading the PowerPoint tutorials on the webuf fan website (plenty of other resources to check out too). It's at http://webuf.eu/.

It is a great game and almost unique. I don't mind the rules if taken in small measure. The programmed instruction I think works better than Squad Leader's attempt 5 years prior. After you get the basics you can add as much chrome as you want. I've been playing with my dad and we have yet to crack the under 2 hour mark (more like 3), but I'm confident we will get to the sub-hour soon. It's actually pretty intuitive after you've got the basic concepts down as the rules adhere closely to the theme.

Another great article is 'an old fashioned card playing lesson' by the publisher Don Greenwood. It explains the significance of all the cards and how to use them. I believe it can be downloaded from BGG.

And Wow what a response. For a slow forum you got a lot of replies! Looks like everyone is entrenched with a -3 concealement!


I found my list of Up Front articles that I found in all of the old "The General" magazines from archive.org. Unfortunately, I don't have which magazine issues have which articles but this list should at least help to narrow down what magazines to look for:

Vol#i# is "Volume #, Issue #"
"C" is "Color" and "B&W" is "Black and White" (I made this list for printing pages in color versus the ones that I preferred printing in black and white to prevent using the black from a color printer - but at least it gives the page numbers)

EDIT: Make SURE to get the first one, Volume 21, Issue 1. It is a "dedicated" Up Front magazine which has the articles "Play your Cards Up Front" (explains the different cards and ideas on when to play them), "Up Front by the Numbers" (statistics), and "Series Replay" - just what the OP is looking for! The Series Replay in this issue is on scenario A - the classic "Meeting of Patrols" - the perfect match to learn Up Front with and for teaching newcomers to the game.

Sorry - don't have the energy right now to go through all of the rest of my pdf copies of these issues to give more details about which articles are in which issues...

Vol21i1: C: 5-22, B&W:23
VOl22i2: C: 5-6,13-16 B&W: 7-12,17-24
Vol22i3: B&W: 31-32
Vol23i2: B&W: 29-31
Vol25i3: B&W: 41-42
Vol25i6: C: 35-36, B&W: 37-39
Vol26i2: B&W: 49-50
Vol26i5: C: 6-7,23-26,29-30 B&W: 8-22,27-28
Vol28i3: B&W:37-39
Vol28i5: C: 50
Vol28i6: C: 47


As mentioned before there are articles that step through actual playthroughs (including a lot of commentary), what the odds are for each nationality to use each type of card, articles on how to play the game, and it also helps to read the designer's notes to explain the reasoning behind certain concepts in the game.

But mostly, I really recommend just setting up the Meeting of Patrols match-up and just play through a match using the programmed rules "versus yourself" (unless you and someone else want to both learn the game together). It will be a slog at first but once this game's core concepts "click" you won't have any problems.

Fortunately/unfortunately, it is my experience with this game that the really complicated parts (requiring looking up rules) don't happen that often, but like I said it is a bad thing too because I still have to look up rules for certain situations. Thankfully, though the rule book is hard to fathom at first, it is (for the most part) a GREAT rule book to use as an actual reference during play - most of the rules are "self-contained" within their own sections - unlike some wargames I've played where the rulebook seems to "read" just fine (before you start playing) but is a mess to use during actual play (*cough* Fields of Fire *cough*).

So I'd say - just get in there and start playing! You'll pick it up. And if you have questions then there are MANY Up Front players on here who would be happy to help! We love our little niche game after all...
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David Janik-Jones
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Noonespecial wrote:
So I'd say - just get in there and start playing! You'll pick it up. And if you have questions then there are MANY Up Front players on here who would be happy to help! We love our little niche game after all...

This. There are a lot of us dedicated players who be happy to teach, help, etc. You'll get in down under two hours with a bit more practice, and be playing 30-45 minutes games soon enough. In the last year I can't recall a game longer than an hour, though I will check my game details notebook to confirm later.
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