$30.00
Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Operation Dauntless: The Battles for Fontenay and Rauray, France, June 1944» Forums » Rules

Subject: Ranged Attacks rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Will Pearson
England
Leicester
flag msg tools
Never drop a crate!
mbmbmbmbmb
Right, up to Tutorial 5 so far, and the ranged attack rules are giving me a bit of a headache.

This is the vanilla version - no FF yet.

Action Phase:

- Direct fire units with LOS can take shots as their action (90 CW rotation), the only real reason I can see for this (non-AT) is potential reduction, though that's unlikely given the numbers needed on the RAT.

- Indirect units with spotter can do the same, but with 90 CCW rotation.

Can units direct fire in the action phase and then perform a combat in the combat phase? Would give them something to do if already adjacent to a target at the start of the turn.

Combat Phase:

- Direct fire units with LOS but not adjacent can support fire.

- Indirect units with spotter but not adjacent can support fire.

- If adjacent either kind can support only if not in any other eZOC.

Off-board Artillery:

Can these fire in either phase?

Other:

Can a weapon support fire in the combat phase if it was unloaded in the action phase of the same turn? (In T5 rushing the D company mortars to Point 102 seems to be a good opener if so).

What's the significance of case 7 on the RAT? Why do weapons get a bonus at this range, and is it only *exactly* range 3?

Think that's it for now, T5 seemed too easy w/o FF, just rush into 0310 with carriers and hit with everything in turn 1. The 6-pounders seem useless in this scenario though: can't attack loaded and are no better than infantry against soft targets.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rusty McFisticuffs
United States
Arcata
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
deathninja wrote:
- Direct fire units with LOS can take shots as their action (90 CW rotation), the only real reason I can see for this (non-AT) is potential reduction

Suppression is good! It keeps them from making ranged attacks of their own, and gives column shifts during assaults.

deathninja wrote:
Can units direct fire in the action phase and then perform a combat in the combat phase? Would give them something to do if already adjacent to a target at the start of the turn.

Yes, but keep in mind you generally can't make ranged attacks at adjacent units; 10.2 lists the exceptions.

deathninja wrote:
Off-board Artillery:

Can these fire in either phase?

Yes.

deathninja wrote:
Can a weapon support fire in the combat phase if it was unloaded in the action phase of the same turn?

Yes.

deathninja wrote:
What's the significance of case 7 on the RAT? Why do weapons get a bonus at this range, and is it only *exactly* range 3?

That's not a bonus; that's a penalty! The effect of case 7 & 8 is, full strength at range 1 & 2; -1 at range 3; half strength beyond that.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Will Pearson
England
Leicester
flag msg tools
Never drop a crate!
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks.

kuhrusty wrote:
Suppression is good! It keeps them from making ranged attacks of their own, and gives column shifts during assaults.


Didn't think about assaults (too many Pioneers around normally), so you'd declare normal ranged fire, then if you got a decent result move a stack in to assault?

kuhrusty wrote:
That's not a bonus; that's a penalty!


Derp. I'll chalk that one up to the dyslxeia.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Felsher
United States
Rancho Palos Verdes
CA
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Suppression is also great if you get the opportunity to prevent friction fire as you move your infantry units across a field. Usually you won't be able to suppress everyone with LOS to the field hexes, but hopefully you can suppress the unit with the highest range attack strength and give yourself a chance.

Another use is to suppress an anti-tank gun on a hill so you can move in some tanks within LOS (not necessarily to attack the hill, but possibly!). They will incur a severe penalty on the Anti-Tank chart against your AFV's if they are suppressed, and all other (NON-AFV) units on the hill will not be able to range attack during defensive support. Hopefully your AFV's are successful in their attack and you can overrun or multi-hex advance with them out of harms way before the next phase removes the suppression marker.

I realize these uses come in handy as you bring in Armor in the later tutorials and scenario's, but keep it in mind and have fun!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Mokszycki
United States
Snohomish
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for chiming in with answers, guys. Here are some answers of my own...

Quote:
Action Phase:

- Direct fire units with LOS can take shots as their action (90 CW rotation), the only real reason I can see for this (non-AT) is potential reduction, though that's unlikely given the numbers needed on the RAT.

You'd do this for step reductions and/or suppression. If the defenders are in close terrain and/or Dug-In, then your odds of success are not terribly good unless you have a high RAS value. But consider a case where the target hex has two company-sized units in field. That's a +3 DRM even before you figure in your RAS. In some situations, these kinds of Ranged Attacks can prove quite lethal.

Quote:
- Indirect units with spotter can do the same, but with 90 CCW rotation.

Correct. Indirect firing units are always marked Fired when they fire--either by rotating them 90 degrees counter-clockwise, flipping them to a Fired side, or marking them with a Fired marker.

Quote:
Can units direct fire in the action phase and then perform a combat in the combat phase?

Yes.

Quote:
Would give them something to do if already adjacent to a target at the start of the turn.

Yep. But note that they can't fire from an eZOC, so this will usually be a situation where they are in close terrain (since eZOC doesn't extend into close terrain).

Quote:
Combat Phase:

- Direct fire units with LOS but not adjacent can support fire.

Correct.

Quote:
- Indirect units with spotter but not adjacent can support fire.

Correct.

Quote:
- If adjacent either kind can support only if not in any other eZOC.

Correct, if the firing unit is defending and the target hex is field. To qualify for Adjacent Defensive Support, your target must be attacking from a field hex.

Quote:
Off-board Artillery:

Can these fire in either phase?

Yes. The only restriction by phase on Ranged Attacks is that the British Assets (the blue chits that you draw from a cup) can only be used during the Combat Phase.

Quote:
Other:

Can a weapon support fire in the combat phase if it was unloaded in the action phase of the same turn? (In T5 rushing the D company mortars to Point 102 seems to be a good opener if so).

Yes, but note that Special Rule #2 prohibits the heavy mortars from moving in this tutorial. (The Brits wouldn't have risked their heavy mortars close to the front line. Otherwise, it would indeed be a good move since you could set them up on high ground and enjoy a +1 DRM for self-spotting.)

Quote:
What's the significance of case 7 on the RAT? Why do weapons get a bonus at this range, and is it only *exactly* range 3?

As previously noted, there is a -1 DRM at range 3 and RAS is halved beyond range 3.

Quote:
Think that's it for now, T5 seemed too easy w/o FF, just rush into 0310 with carriers and hit with everything in turn 1. The 6-pounders seem useless in this scenario though: can't attack loaded and are no better than infantry against soft targets.


The 6-pounders are anti-tank guns and they are indeed quite useless against soft targets. I left them in the British OB for this scenario just so the British player would get used to the idea of which units comprised a British infantry battalion. If playing the variant where the Germans counter-attack with armor towards the end of the scenario, then those 6-pounders will be of utmost importance.

T5 can indeed be easy for the Brits unless the Germans get in some step reductions in the first couple of game turns. Note that the Germans start with a lot of artillery and, because they go second in the turn sequence, they can fire it all during the British player's advance on turn 1, and then some of it (mortars and IGs) resets immediately during the German half of the turn. If the Germans can catch two British companies in a field hex, they have an excellent chance of reducing or eliminating some British infantry companies on turns 1-2.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Will Pearson
England
Leicester
flag msg tools
Never drop a crate!
mbmbmbmbmb
duckweed wrote:
But consider a case where the target hex has two company-sized units in field. That's a +3 DRM even before you figure in your RAS.


Kept missing that at first, was skimming down the left column of the RAT every fire so just saw it as +1.

duckweed wrote:
Yes, but note that Special Rule #2 prohibits the heavy mortars from moving in this tutorial.


Again, was unsure of that, read "placed" as "unloaded" as if it was a hard limit I though the SSR would just say "can't move at all".

Will run this again tonight with FF, see how I go.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
JIM MCFETRIDGE
United States
Sacramento
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
[q="truep"]. . . and all other units on the hill will not be able to range attack during defensive support.q]

Follow up question: why would all other non-anti-tank units not be able to range attack during defensive support?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Felsher
United States
Rancho Palos Verdes
CA
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
mcfetridgej wrote:
[q="truep"]. . . and all other units on the hill will not be able to range attack during defensive support.q]

Follow up question: why would all other non-anti-tank units not be able to range attack during defensive support?


Good question, and I edited my post to "all (non-afv) units on the hill..." That's what I meant to get across...

10.4.1 Units in a hex marked suppressed may not conduct Ranged Attacks (exception AFV's).

Defensive support is a ranged attack so non-afv units would be out of the battle.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rusty McFisticuffs
United States
Arcata
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
truep wrote:
mcfetridgej wrote:
truep wrote:
. . . and all other units on the hill will not be able to range attack during defensive support.

Follow up question: why would all other non-anti-tank units not be able to range attack during defensive support?

Good question, and I edited my post to "all (non-afv) units on the hill..." That's what I meant to get across...

10.4.1 Units in a hex marked suppressed may not conduct Ranged Attacks (exception AFV's).

Defensive support is a ranged attack so non-afv units would be out of the battle.

Note, though, that A) there's no defensive support during an assault, and B) those suppression markers go away at the end of the action phase, so those units will be able to provide defensive support during the combat phase unless you suppress them again.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Will Pearson
England
Leicester
flag msg tools
Never drop a crate!
mbmbmbmbmb
Giving this a quick necro rather than create a really similar post...

So I ran the same situation with Friction Fire, and most of the time it didn't seem worth taking the shots:

- RAT is pretty punishing anyway, you need a damn good roll for most hits
- The big guns need spotters, so halve their attack

It seems to make more sense to hold the artillery until just before combat, them pound away to add suppression to the attacker. MGs seem OK for friction fire (as expected) but it feels like anything else is better kept in reserve.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Mokszycki
United States
Snohomish
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Will, I concur.

I felt that, given the time and unit scales, this type of fire shouldn't be too terribly effective, except in certain situations. It would also slow the game down too much if these types of attacks were taking place constantly. New players will experiment with them a bit, but they will quickly figure out that most of those shots aren't worth taking.

As you suggest, it's usually worth saving the artillery and mortars for the Combat Phase. Units like tanks, armored cars, and heavy machine guns can quite often fire "off the cuff" to great effect, though--especially against large groups of infantry crossing open fields. Self-spotting infantry guns can also sometimes be surprising effective in these situations (+3 net DRM for self-spotting and target it field hex).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.