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Max Laager
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Hi,
well I counted when you have all extenstion you have

heroes allies 126
plots 70
master/comm 37
villans 50
henchmen 20

wow that is over 3000 cards

that should NEVER feeling like repeating itself...
but it does... why ??

well you have in deed 3x10^18 possibilities...
that mean is you plays a millions games per day, it still take over 27 millions years to play all combinations...

still feel repetitive...

well the human mind does not work that way (funny isnt it)

well playing loki, dark, portal vs hulk, thor, b.widow, cpt America, nick fury feel a lot like loki, dark, portal vs hulk, thor, b.widow, cpt America, spider mand feels a lot like loki, dark, portal vs hulk, thor, b.widow, cpt America, wolverine... etc...

so you get me here... so our brain is sensible to repetition...

ah yeah ok... what about NO repetions.... ah yeah that get less a looooooot less

in a 2 player setup (witch i play a lot, and also solo,playing two tecks)

well every 20 games I will have the same henchmens...

if I take a new set of heroes (every 25 games I will have to repeat heroes)

every 37 games I have to face the same commander/mastermind

every 70 games I have to play the plot...

and well changing only one hero at the time, after 126 games I face the same...

that mean in 70 games.. I can have play with every game in the full 3000+ game...

meaning if you play 5 games per day solo that mean in 2 weeks your are DONE!!

yeah of course there are variations etc etc.. well somehow you have seen it all...

and yeah there MORE then 70 interesting plays (there are 10xe^18 combinations) but all wont feel intersting...


well there are at LEAST 20 two players games with no repetions...
at least 25 games with COMPLETELY different heroes sets..

you could go on the the grand mastermind tour that would last 37 games

or the great plot tour 70 games...

or if you say you defeat each mastermind with each heores once.. 925 plays...

and each plot with each master mind 2590 games

or every plot/masterminder/heroes once 64'750 games

yeah that seems like a better number (cause I think villans and henchman are less impacting on the play, but they do, and most of the time a villan implies a give master mind) so probalby that 50 time less combination on the grand total....


so do you have also the feeling that the game is repeating itself ? and thats why you did buy new extenssion ?













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Scott Wheelock
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Geez, man. Five times per day for two weeks straight, and a lot of things are going to feel repetitive.
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Max Laager
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I Had to recalculte this for the base game only

hero 15

mastermind 4

schems 8

vilians 7

4 henchmen

that is 276'756'480 combination

but
after 3 games you gonna repeat heores
after 4 games you gonna repeat mastermind and henchmen
after 8 games you gonna repeat vilians and plots
after 12 games you gonna repeat a hero facine a villians
after 24 games you gonna repeat villans henchmen combination
after 32 games you gonna repeat mastermind/plot combination


so yeah 276 millions+ combination seems a lot...
but in fact it does not feel new to our brain..


so did this help you to understand why you felt the need for a new extenssion so quickly ?



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Max Laager
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swheelock wrote:
Geez, man. Five times per day for two weeks straight, and a lot of things are going to feel repetitive.



indeed, you don't have it that intense (I was pushing a bit the envelop).

but I mean 70 plays is nothing compared to 3 million billion...
and already in fact we could have seen it all at least once

didnt you never wonder about this


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Rudy Castaneda
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Max,

Thank you. This is an amazing thread. I'm sorry I have nothing more to add.

-rudy
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Dan C
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What are you comparing it to exactly? I've been playing this game for four years, and the combinations of masterminds and twists alone are still keeping me interested.

Maybe it just feels repetitive because it's a card game?
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Eric Sanner
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I agree the 3 billion combinations, while real, is not how I perceive the game when I play it. I setup with a randomizer 90% of the time. And just yesterday I played a game and thought "didn't I just play this setup?". But I don't really feel the game is repeating itself. I played it and had fun with it.

Are you saying it is a problem with this game that the number of "real" combinations (that feel different) is much lower than advertised. I would think that would be a problem with every game then. And after one experiences all the combinations, it would never be played again.

But isn't part of a card game (and replayability) in the shuffle? Even playing the same exact setup can feel different after shuffling. The hero deck can come up in a different order forcing you to build a different deck. The villains can come out in different orders and be harder or easier.
 
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Bryon Hake
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swheelock wrote:
Geez, man. Five times per day for two weeks straight, and a lot of things are going to feel repetitive.
No kidding. Ironically, the poor sap driving the car in your avatar looks like his route is a little repetitive.
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Davy Ashleydale
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Every time I play Legendary, it feels like I'm playing Legendary.
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Tomer Mlynarsky
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I can understand the op. While the game has a lot of combinations, most of them feel pretty much the same.

The basic strategy is obvious, draw as much as you can, KO starter cards whenever you can, fight whatever you can and finish up the big bad.


Some cards drastically change that, for example, if you're playing Carnage, you might want to have some fodder in your deck.

If you're playing against zombies, you think twice about the order you fight (or pickup Ghost Rider to KO them)

Galactus encourages you to go monochrome.

Shield Clearance means you might think twice about KO starting cards or just buy Maria Hill.

But those are relatively minor examples out of the entire set.

Most of the time, you don't feel that much different in picking your strategy or the deck you go for.

I don't play different in Dark Portal or Mega Bomb or Invading the Daily Bugle.

A lot of the schemes are basically some clockwork mechanic and that's it.
Most masterminds are basically just pickup a card of type X and you're immune.
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Max Laager
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Hello

thank you for all these amazing replies

so First not its not an issue at all, I love the game and play a lot and waiting for my latest expanssions to arrive in the mails...

I m not ranting. I m wondering... because well I was thinkg with THAT many combination i wouldnt even need expanssions.

And I was indeed asking if you feel the same, about this that combinations just dont seem enough to renew the game...

because well.. like I saide 276 millons different combinations seems I dont need any other game ever... and still I do

also I think GrandMasterFox is right a lot of masterminde and schemes feel the same... making it also more reptitive...

I think I played over 100 times by now (mostly solo) and yes you can play the same setup multiple times it can play out totaly different...


So what do I want ? (3 million billion games that feel totaly different, lol)...

well I wanted to know if you are like me suprise that the game feels more repetitive that orginaly estimated
(maybe its juste me putting my hope too high)

now exuse me (there is tanos bathing earth with cosmic rays to beat and I have drawn spider-man and daredevil, I m going to get beaten up)


 
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Ranger Rob
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Find the Marvel Master Database in the Variants section of the Marvel Legendary Forums.
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Well, to help break up the repetitiveness. I'll offer up the Marvel Master Database. Official Plots/schemes not enough for yah. There are another 121 in the Database. Those are actually the easiest to print out and use as they don't go in a deck. Print it on regular paper and set it on the board.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1268493/marvel-master-databa...

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Josh Grogg
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im curious, I have all sets thru civil war not counting any of the 3d cards. I have 119 heroes, 35 masterminds, 67 schemes, 48 villains, and 18 henchmen. i was wondering how you have more of everything? do you have the 3d stuff?
 
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Mark Blasco

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Well, many games are literally the exact same thing every time, and yet are still enjoyable.

Does being repetitive keep it from being enjoyable? I listen to the same albums over and over for years, and still enjoy them a lot.

With a board game, which has fixed rules and strategies, there's only so much you can do to change things before you change the nature of the game.

You'd be hard pressed to find more than a small handful of games that have more variety, and I can't think of many games that would feel any less repetitive.

My suggestion, if you want to avoid it feeling repetitive, is to create some sort of elimination as you play. Make a bit of a campaign. While this will not inherently change the gameplay, it will change the focus of the game.

Maybe your goal is to get through all of the plots. Any time one of your hero cards is KO'd, it's removed from the campaign. Create teams of 8-10 characters, and shuffle all of their cards. For each mission, create a hero deck of 70 cards. Whenever you can't pull 70 cards, that team is defeated, and removed from the campaign. Whenever you lose a mission, KO a number of cards equal to the remaining mastermind tactics from the top of the hero deck.

All of a sudden, your strategy is going to change, because KOing a hero is a lot more problematic than before. Also, since you don't know exactly what cards you're going to get, the fact that some might be a bit repetitive won't matter as much, since you'll see a bigger variety each time.

With a game like this, there is only so much you can do to change the feel. Experiment with ways to use the same rules, but change the focus. That may help if you're losing interest.

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??? ???
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I think that the problem is that too many games are solved in similar ways. This problem is highlighted a lot in 1-2 player games when there is little reason to not pick the "best" solution. However, this changes a lot with 3+ players, and especially in 4-5 hero games as several people might jump on the best solution first resulting in that a normally suboptimal solution becomes the correct one.

This is not a problem to me though as I play Legendary to play Legendary. It isn't like it is the only game I play, but it is one of my favorites due to how it play. The variety is in my opinion nicely balanced as while the solutions are similar they always look a little different.
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Adelin Dumitru
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Max Laager
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ok I just made a rough estimation using the all card therad
(I might have miscounted) but I doesn't change much
my bad
 
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Max Laager
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oh oh don't get me wrong I love the game and enjoy it much...

and no I m not loosing interest..

In fact there is not issue hihi

just a feeling...

but yeah the campain sound cool....

and there is an other funky idea is to mix and match heros
take 5 common from this heros and 5 from an other and uncomons and rare also from different heroes (but its might not all work)....


but thank for the help... but my only question is was
do feel it repeating more then you originally expected ?


 
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Max Laager
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AdelinDumitru wrote:

indeed, hihi, I m just writing on a forum, I don't care... sorry
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Max Laager
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xLVNx wrote:
I think that the problem is that too many games are solved in similar ways. This problem is highlighted a lot in 1-2 player games when there is little reason to not pick the "best" solution. However, this changes a lot with 3+ players, and especially in 4-5 hero games as several people might jump on the best solution first resulting in that a normally suboptimal solution becomes the correct one.

This is not a problem to me though as I play Legendary to play Legendary. It isn't like it is the only game I play, but it is one of my favorites due to how it play. The variety is in my opinion nicely balanced as while the solutions are similar they always look a little different.


yeah maybe multiplie player change also a lot how it plays out..

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Tomer Mlynarsky
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zerg wrote:

yeah maybe multiplie player change also a lot how it plays out..



Oh, it definitely does. But not just the number of players, but how they play.

Competitive or Cooperative, is a huge deal.


In 3+ players, villains escape. A LOT. In some scheme, that's a huge deal.

Also, you have less say on what card you can buy, since there is a lot more competition in the HQ. I would almost say that there is a lot more luck involved than compared to a 1 or 2 player game.
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Darth Ed
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I've played nearly 180 games of Marvel Legendary, and it doesn't feel repetitious to me at all. I think the variety in gameplay that comes from the combination of the scheme and mastermind is the best thing that Marvel Legendary has going for it. Many of the schemes play very differently, a stark contrast to every other deck-building game on the market for which all the games play the same. But you really need a couple expansions for Marvel Legendary to really shine. The base set is just an introduction to the system and primarily intended for people who haven't played deck-building games before.
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Erik Hatinen
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The game can be repetitive, beyond a doubt. Just think how many Schemes are lost if X Villains escape or X Bystanders are destroyed and so on. And with a few very notable exceptions for odd Schemes or Masterminds, your strategy to strengthening your deck to beat up the Mastermind four times is going to be fundamentally the same.

That said, I don't think it's a problem. Whoever made the "every time this a Marvel Legendary game" line had a stroke of genius when he came up with that.

Most comic stories have a great many common elements, too. A bad guy has an evil scheme, and a top-secret advantage: a normally heroic character is a traitor, because of mind control or he/she simply switched sides. Chief bad guy develops an overwhelming advantage and the good guys are toast, but then someone unexpected shows up to even the odds and the good guys save the day.

I think describes about half the comic stories I've read in my entire life.

For that matter, a great many stories of any kind are remarkably similar, no matter the format (comics, movies, TV, etc.) or genre (sci-fi, horror, action, etc.) Just think of how common the "Good guy is turned into an alien/monster" story is in the sci-fi or horror genres, respectively.

 
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Erik Hatinen
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*Off Topic On Grammar. If you don't care, skip this entire post*

I didn't like the poor grammar, but can live with it. I try to appreciate those with solid English skills more than deride anyone with weak English, in particular when the writer isn't a native English speaker or writer. Zerg (I don't remember his real name) is one of them.

This is probably influenced a great deal by the fact that I live in a Board & Lodge. Most people who live in one read at a grade school level, and if anything, their writing would be worse than what our original poster wrote.

Years ago I had a ridiculous example of how bad this can be. I lived in a college apartment with three guys who got there on athletic scholarships, and offered to help one of them with an essay. I took one look and was horrified at what he wrote. There weren't just a lack of paragraphs, but periods and commas were missing, too. I mentally sighed inside and started to add the punctuation, but on putting in the first comma, Travis (the guy I was helping) pointed his finger at the screen and shouted "What the (Bleep) is that?!"

After a second I realized he wasn't joking. "It's a comma. Seriously, you don't know what a comma is?" After a freakish conversation with him (he made at least one death threat) he explained had not read or written anything since grade school, so he really didn't remember what a comma was. I was too disturbed to find out how he got through tests.
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