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Subject: A few quick questions rss

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Yiu Fai Adrian Lui
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I have a few quick questions. Hope someone can help:

1. Does stacking limit apply during the movement phase can some units move through a fully stack hex) or only at the end of movement?

2. For supply path does it require the rail hex or river hexside to be friendly controlled? I find it strange that movement is restricted to controled rail hex but supply is not.

3. For 8.28 does the step loss just based on the result of the Combat table or after adjusted by 8.27. I find it strange if it is after 8.27 since a unit does not need to be retreated just because it is overkilled.

4.Just a quick confirmation. Is it except 6.231 (that starts in turn 1), 6.232 to 6.234 all start in turn 4? If it is so strategic bombing is has no meaning in the first 3 turns?

Will start my first game next weekend! Can't wait!
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John Gorkowski
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1. See 3.63, it applies during movement when marching, but not for rail or sailing.

2. Rail movement is restricted to friendly controlled rail hexes, but you can march anywhere (on land). Supply is NOT restricted to friendly controlled hexes, but cannot be traced through a hex that contains an enemy unit. So you could trace over "empty" hexes.

3. Apply 8.28 AFTER 8.27. I don't understand your clause, "retreated just because it is overkilled."

4. No replacement points - for anyone - until turn 4. In rule 6.231 change "July" to "October", my bad. Right, there is no point in strategic bombing for the first three turns. The Japanese thought the whole thing would be over in 90 days. They didn't commence "strategic" bombing until 1938.
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Yiu Fai Adrian Lui
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All is good except point 3. Let me clarify,

For example, a two step Chinese unit attack a single step Japanese unit and achieve a result of 1/2. Although in terms of the Land combat Table Chinese win the battle, because Japanese does not have enough steps to fullfill the result it only lose 1 step. At the end both Chinese and Japanese lose one step. And to apply 8.28 Japanese does not need to retreat since the number of step it loses in real is not greater than the Chinese. I find it a little bid strange since base on the dice roll Chinese win and Japanese does not need to retreat just because he has fewer defenders.
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John Gorkowski
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I see your point now, but the effect is deliberate to reflect Japan's qualitative advantage. The rule is designed to limit Japanese losses when attacking and "rob" China of victories so that in the end you have historical results. The rule is unfair on purpose.
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Yiu Fai Adrian Lui
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Thanks for the help. Just two more quick confirmations:

1. If China use paper tiger units only to attempt to attack Shanghai but fail to get a 8. I will assume the attack did not happen and no VP is given to China?

2. Based on your previous answer I will assume 10.4 is also based on real step losses rather than combat table result?

3. For 8.285, if all defender are destroyed in combat and there is no retreat occur, can the attacker still advance? I think it can.

Game seems to be very nice. I cannot wait to start my first game. I hope you can include guerrilla warfare rule by the communist like railway destruction then it will be even better. But I still like this game.

Thanks for the help!
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John Gorkowski
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1. Correct.

2. Correct.

3. Yes.

The guerrilla aspect of warfare by the Communists comes through in two way, their combat modifier when attacking and their ability to "recruit" replacement points inside the Japanese area.
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Yiu Fai Adrian Lui
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Two more questions.

1. Can the Japanese Amphibious assault an empty Chinese hex and then march forward and attack at the same turn? I assume no because if it is allowed no Japanese player will assault a port directly and get the half combat value penalty (if not using Marine) but just to assault nearby. But in the rule it say a unit can take naval transport and rail and later march at the same turn.

2. If Japanese attack Chinese paper tiger units and Chinese fail to roll a 8. However there is no where to retreat. Do they force to fight or are they considered to be eliminated automatically since failing to retreat?

Thanks!
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John Gorkowski
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1. Can the Japanese Amphibious assault an empty Chinese hex and then march forward and attack at the same turn? I assume no because if it is allowed no Japanese player will assault a port directly and get the half combat value penalty (if not using Marine) but just to assault nearby. But in the rule it say a unit can take naval transport and rail and later march at the same turn.

No, rule 7.41 says "amphibious assault is a form of naval transport in which the traveler ends its move in a coastal hex." So, by definition, if you amphib assault you can move no further that turn.

Normal naval transport to a friendly hex would allow later marching, but not amphib assault.

2. If Japanese attack Chinese paper tiger units and Chinese fail to roll a 8. However there is no where to retreat. Do they force to fight or are they considered to be eliminated automatically since failing to retreat?

Per 8.284 they are destroyed for failure to retreat.
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Yiu Fai Adrian Lui
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1. How about if Japan amphibious assault in an empty hex can it attack any hexes right next to it in the same turn, and if possible even advance after winning in the same turn?

2. Another amphibious assault question, can Japanese unit amphibious assault along the Yangtze river? if it is a yes, do they considered as naval units during naval transport and follow rule 7.06?

2. For the communist unit, Given in every turn only one communist unit can move, can more than one communist units attack and if possible advance in the same turn?

4. Related to Shantung province, my friend who play as the Japanese, put his one shantung unit in hex v11. And at the end of the first turn he claimed that it is out of supply and ask for flipping it. It seems the rule is kind of buggy here. Since he purposely put the unit far away from the rail hex and city and purposely trying to destroy it after two turn. But I cannot say anything since he can really put it anywhere within Shantung. I tried to adjust the rule a bit and say Shantung should be always in supply until it is "activated". But still it is kind of buggy because if at the time it is activated the unit will still become out of supply before movement and can only move one hex, so it will still flip at the very first turn when Shantung is activated. The solution I can think of is when setting up the Shantung units have to be put in hexes in supply. But I would like to know whether it is what you intend.

So far I enjoy the game very much. It is far easier and the rule is much cleaner than Everlasting Glory by a long shot. Thanks for creating this game.
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John Gorkowski
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1. How about if Japan amphibious assault in an empty hex can it attack any hexes right next to it in the same turn, and if possible even advance after winning in the same turn?

No, see 7.41 which states that "the traveler ends its move in a coastal hex and then attacks that coastal hex in the immediately following combat phase." By definition, amphibious assault requires that you attack the coastal hex you occupy (see 8.1). So even if that hex is empty, the invader must still "attack" it.

2. Another amphibious assault question, can Japanese unit amphibious assault along the Yangtze river? if it is a yes, do they considered as naval units during naval transport and follow rule 7.06?

No, because per 7.41 such a move must end in a "coastal" hex - a hex where land and ocean meet. But one can amphib assault from the ocean as far in as hex U19 or V21.

2. For the communist unit, Given in every turn only one communist unit can move, can more than one communist units attack and if possible advance in the same turn?

Yes.

4. Related to Shantung province, my friend who play as the Japanese, put his one shantung unit in hex v11. And at the end of the first turn he claimed that it is out of supply and ask for flipping it. It seems the rule is kind of buggy here. Since he purposely put the unit far away from the rail hex and city and purposely trying to destroy it after two turn.

This is legal. You are correct, it does not make any military sense; but that's how corruption works and that's why the Chinese player places one Shantung unit and the Japanese the other one. The set up rules for Shantung are meant to give the Japanese unfair influence. Any number of things that might actually happen in real life, but are not apparent in the game, could explain such a deployment. For example, perhaps the company that makes shoes for the Army of Shantung wants another lucrative contract so it makes arrangements with a general (and his Japanese patrons) to march that corps out there to be refitted with new shoes since the old ones will be worn out by then. And, flipping the corps does not necessarily mean its men died of starvation. Given the lack of supervision out there, they may have fled, or contracted venereal disease!

So far I enjoy the game very much. It is far easier and the rule is much cleaner than Everlasting Glory by a long shot. Thanks for creating this game.

Glad you like the game. The intent was to offer an accessible presentation of the Sino-Japanese War. Too many of the other games on this topic are "for experts by experts" and therefore too complex.

Thanks
John
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Yiu Fai Adrian Lui
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1. In rule 7.31, does it mean that Japanese marines cannot do a regular naval transportation to w20 because it is not considered to be amphibious assault?

2. For shantung province about the above situation again, can the Chinese player use replace point to bring back the dead shantung unit back from the dead pile before shantung is activated?

Thanks!
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John Gorkowski
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1. In rule 7.31, does it mean that Japanese marines cannot do a regular naval transportation to w20 because it is not considered to be amphibious assault?

Right, no regular naval transport on turn 1.


2. For shantung province about the above situation again, can the Chinese player use replace point to bring back the dead shantung unit back from the dead pile before shantung is activated?


Yes.
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Yiu Fai Adrian Lui
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If the Chinese player bring back the dead Shantung unit can the unit be placed outside of Shantung? Or it is still under Japan control? Thanks!
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John Gorkowski
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Can be placed anywhere. And, just because the Japanese set it up does not mean they control it. They just set it up. Japan does not control shantung unless other Chinese units enter it.
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Yiu Fai Adrian Lui
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More questions.

1. I assume amphibious unit is considered to be "always in supply" only during it's attack phase. When checking supply at the end of the turn during logistic phase if it is out of supply we still treat it as out of supply. Am I correct?

2. If no players attack Shantung at all does the Chinese player gain VP for the non port city in Shantung at the end of the game?
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John Gorkowski
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1. Yes.
2. Yes.
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Yiu Fai Adrian Lui
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1. A quick Shantung question again. So to continue from the above story (the Japanese player has set the only Shantung unit up in a OOS location and the unit is gone in two turns. The Chinese player use the replacement point to put the unit back on the map outside Shantung and treat it as a regular paper tiger unit while Shantung is still being unactivated.)

As situation change later it actually becomes Chinese's desire to enter Shantung to cut off the supply of the Japanese in the North (most Japanese force are going west trying to get the second replacement point). In doing so the two Shantung units still in Shantung become controlled by Japanese. But the one previously dead but replaced unit still controlled by the Chinese. So it is kind of odd situation again, with two Shantung units under Japanese control but one under Chinese control. Any advise?

2. For replacement can we replace OOS unit?
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Yiu Fai Adrian Lui
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Sorry for bothering but I a few more questions:

1. For 8.286, can a unit advance into an empty hex that has been attacked earlier by other units in the same side in the same turn? To simply put I use unit A to win an attack but I want unit B to advance to that empty hex. 8.12 seems to say no if 8.286 is considering an attack. But I would like to confirm.

2. Does 3.432 applies during 8.286? Again if advance to an empty hex is considered an attack then it is highly possible that paper tiger can not advance to empty hex.

3. Does 3.432 apply when Chinese fratricide happens? I think is yes.

4. If there is no more communist unit on the map it seems 6.233 will prevent it to come back to play?

Thanks!
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John Gorkowski
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proflui wrote:
Sorry for bothering but I a few more questions:

1. For 8.286, can a unit advance into an empty hex that has been attacked earlier by other units in the same side in the same turn? To simply put I use unit A to win an attack but I want unit B to advance to that empty hex. 8.12 seems to say no if 8.286 is considering an attack. But I would like to confirm.

2. Does 3.432 applies during 8.286? Again if advance to an empty hex is considered an attack then it is highly possible that paper tiger can not advance to empty hex.

3. Does 3.432 apply when Chinese fratricide happens? I think is yes.

4. If there is no more communist unit on the map it seems 6.233 will prevent it to come back to play?

Thanks!


1. No.
2. Yes.
3. Yes.
4. Yes.
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Sven Weiler
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I'd like to add some questions of my own:

1. Can a Supply Line be traced through a combination of rivers and railways? The rivers leading to Chunking do not connect to a port themselves thus this would make taking the city impossible for the Japanese if this were not the case.

2. The French Indo-Chinese city is located outside of the supply capabilities of either side so taking it will cost the units involved a step loss due to being oos at the end of the turn?

3. Aside from the "Wuhan" scenario under which conditions does the "Poli. I-15" unit enter the game? I seem to be incapable of finding a reference in the rules.

4. During mustering, after choosing a unit, do the Chinese communists roll only for the relevant rail hexes or all relevant hexes unoccupied by Nationalists / Japanese?

Love the game so far! The Chinese winning initiative on turn 2 and pushing the Japanese out of Shanghai made for a very different war in my last game...
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John Gorkowski
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Xenos141 wrote:
I'd like to add some questions of my own:

1. Can a Supply Line be traced through a combination of rivers and railways? The rivers leading to Chunking do not connect to a port themselves thus this would make taking the city impossible for the Japanese if this were not the case.

2. The French Indo-Chinese city is located outside of the supply capabilities of either side so taking it will cost the units involved a step loss due to being oos at the end of the turn?

3. Aside from the "Wuhan" scenario under which conditions does the "Poli. I-15" unit enter the game? I seem to be incapable of finding a reference in the rules.

4. During mustering, after choosing a unit, do the Chinese communists roll only for the relevant rail hexes or all relevant hexes unoccupied by Nationalists / Japanese?

Love the game so far! The Chinese winning initiative on turn 2 and pushing the Japanese out of Shanghai made for a very different war in my last game...


1. Yes.

2. Yes.

3. See rule 9.61 It's the "KMT air unit" that arrives eight turns after the Japanese cross the yellow line into Mengkiang.

4. Rule 6.233 explains this. Count the number of hexes adjacent (next to) your ONE chosen communist that do NOT contain Japanese or nationalist and then roll ONE die. If the die roll is LESS than the number of hexes then the Communists get one RP. For example, a qualifying communist unit (one on or next to a rail track) is surrounded by six hexes. If two of them contain Japanese units and the other four are "empty" then the necessary die roll is 3 or less.
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