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Codex: Card-Time Strategy – Deluxe Set» Forums » Rules

Subject: Blue copy Purple - rules questions rss

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Andrey
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1. If you use Manufactured Truth or Quince to copy a card with Forecast which already entered the game, does blue copy have time runes? Is it in play?

2. Same for Fading. If the copy doesn't have time runes, does it die immediately? Or can it live forever, since it has no time runes, so the last time rune actually cannot be discarded from it?

3. Let's say Blue stole Purple's Immortal with Community Service and copied it with Quince's maxband, so they've got indestructible illusion. If Purple target it, will it die?

4. I suppose a copy has the same Tech level that the thing it copies.

Thanks in advance!
 
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Denis
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Not 100% sure on these but "pretty certain".

Both forecast and fading do get their runes when they arrive or would be put into play from a different zone. The card that you turn into a copy was already in play. Ergo:

Random_Phobosis wrote:
1. If you use Manufactured Truth or Quince to copy a card with Forecast which already entered the game, does blue copy have time runes? Is it in play?

The copy is in play and has 0 time runes.

Random_Phobosis wrote:
2. Same for Fading. If the copy doesn't have time runes, does it die immediately? Or can it live forever, since it has no time runes, so the last time rune actually cannot be discarded from it?

The copy has 0 time runes (runes do not get copied) but will not die because "when the last rune is removed" never occurs. This interaction is an explicit example among Fading ruling (e.g. on http://codexcarddb.com/card/fading_argonaut )

Random_Phobosis wrote:
3. Let's say Blue stole Purple's Immortal with Community Service and copied it with Quince's maxband, so they've got indestructible illusion. If Purple target it, will it die?

I think it won't. Illusion dieing is an effect that actually tries to "destroy it" and indestructible prevents that. This is unlike a token copy of something (e.g. a Mirror token) that gets returned to someones hand and ceizes to exist.

Random_Phobosis wrote:
4. I suppose a copy has the same Tech level that the thing it copies.

I think you are right.
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Rabid Schnauzer
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Random_Phobosis wrote:
1. If you use Manufactured Truth or Quince to copy a card with Forecast which already entered the game, does blue copy have time runes? Is it in play?


A "forecast card" is a card which has not yet entered play due to still having time runes on it. Unless the effect specifically applies to a "forecast card", such an effect cannot do anything to Forecast cards. So
Manufactured Truth cannot yet copy such cards.

However, once the last time rune has been removed, then the previously-forecast card actually enters play and can be influenced by all cards and effects which can apply to other cards in play, so, for example once the last time rune has been removed from a Plasmodium, you can use Manufactured Truth to turn a 1/1 unit into a 4/4 with Haste until the end of the current turn. Such a Manufactured copy of Plasmodium will be in play and will not have time runes (unless some other effect caused it to have time runes)


Quote:
2. Same for Fading. If the copy doesn't have time runes, does it die immediately? Or can it live forever, since it has no time runes, so the last time rune actually cannot be discarded from it?


Okay, making a unit into a copy of another unit (either via Manufactured Truth of via Quince's abilities with his Mirror Illusions) does not trigger Arrives abilities. Thus if you Manufactured Truth a vanilla unit into a unit which has Fading, the "Arrives with X time runes" part of fading does not trigger. However since Manufactured Truth and Quince's midband abilities only last until end of turn, the unit will revert to its vanilla non-fading state before your upkeep happens, and you will not remove any time runes from it. Since fading units only fade away "when you remove the last time rune", this condition is never checked on a fading unit which has no time runes, and the copy stays in play for the turn. Even if you somehow trigger Quince's Maxband of off a Fading unit, the Illusionary Fading unit never has a "last" time rune to remove - so it won't fade away. (However if you do that the "trash that token if the original" leaves play part of Quince's ability means that the illusion will leave play if the original unit fades away.

Of course things can get weirder if the illusion somehow has a way to gain time runes Such as via Quince's maxband mirroring a Shimmer Ray or a Yesterday's Golgort. In that case the copied unit can use the copied ability to gain a Time Rune, going from zero up to one time runes, int which case it now has both Fading and a "last" time rune which you will remove during your next upkeep, thereby triggering Fading's sacrifice clause.

Oh, and if you are not confused yet - Fading's sacrifice clause only triggers when YOU remove the final time rune. Thus an opponent using an effect to remove the final time rune does not trigger the sacrifice -- and more usefully, neither does a partner in two-headed dragon mode.

Quote:

3. Let's say Blue stole Purple's Immortal with Community Service and copied it with Quince's maxband, so they've got indestructible illusion. If Purple target it, will it die?


Yes in that it's an illusion so the "dies" clause trigers. But not really since Indestructible overwrites "dies" with an alternate effect. What will happen is that the Illusion Immortal will exhaust and lose all attachments.


Quote:

4. I suppose a copy has the same Tech level that the thing it copies.


That is correct.
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Alex Krasny
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rabid_schnauzer wrote:
[q="Random_Phobosis"]

Oh, and if you are not confused yet - Fading's sacrifice clause only triggers when YOU remove the final time rune. Thus an opponent using an effect to remove the final time rune does not trigger the sacrifice -- and more usefully, neither does a partner in two-headed dragon mode.



I am really crabby that taking the last counter off Pryn through means other than upkeep fading does not trigger her midband ability even though there should be no reason that "dying from fading" is any different if it's an upkeep fading, or the last counter is removed through other means.
 
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Denis
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VirtualAlex wrote:
rabid_schnauzer wrote:
[q="Random_Phobosis"]

Oh, and if you are not confused yet - Fading's sacrifice clause only triggers when YOU remove the final time rune. Thus an opponent using an effect to remove the final time rune does not trigger the sacrifice -- and more usefully, neither does a partner in two-headed dragon mode.



I am really crabby that taking the last counter off Pryn through means other than upkeep fading does not trigger her midband ability even though there should be no reason that "dying from fading" is any different if it's an upkeep fading, or the last counter is removed through other means.


Yeah, pretty much everybody agrres that the wording on that ability is just plain wrong. But we now the designer's intent so there isn't much point in arguing about it. Just see it as an erratum.
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