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Sentinels of the Multiverse» Forums » Variants

Subject: Custom Villain - Thaladriel rss

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Joseph Guzman
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*The Run Down
Trigon and Darkseid as well as Mephisto and Thanos are amazing super characters in both DC and Marvel and even though Oblivaeon is coming out, I wanted to make a character that is kinda like those characters, but will be unique in and upon himself. He will be a little offensive, but will mostly act as a leader of his own horde of demons, each representing one of the 7 deadly sin. Ran out of room for sloth, so please don't go nuts on me over it.

*Bio
Ruler and conqueror of realms, Thaladriel has grown bored. Until he came across a new realm with something new, something challenging. Heroes. He decided to send an envoy to test the heroes of this new realm and had his minions search for someone worthy. They sent him a human, one who tries and quell the evil of his own realm. He possessed this human with one of his troublesome berserkers, one who has broken his collar. He did not expect them to work together against him and escape. A blessing in disguise he guessed as this will only add to the challenge of this realm as he comes to conquer it. This world that will be his as are so many others.

Villain: Thaladriel
HP:66
Nemesis: Grom


Villain Character Card, Front (Demon King)
------------------------
Set Up:
At the start of the game, put Thaladriel's character cards into play "Demon King" side up. Then reveal cards from the top of the deck until (H)-2 demon cards are revealed. Put the demon cards into play and shuffle the rest into the villain deck.

Gameplay:
-When a demon card is destroyed, Thaladriel regains (H)-1 HP.
-Damage dealt to demon cards is reduced by 2-X, where X is equal to the amount of demons in play.
-At the end of the villain turn, if no demon cards were played this turn, Thaladriel deals each non-villain target (H)-1 infernal damage.
-When Thaladriel's HP is reduced to 0 or lower flip Thaladriel's character cards

Advanced: At the start of the villain turn, if no demon cards are in play, play the top card of the villain deck.


Villain Character Card, Back (Angry Tyrant)
-----------------------
Gameplay:
-When Thaladriel's character cards are flipped to this side, his HP is set to 33.
-Reduce all damage to Thaladriel by 1
-When flipped to this side, Thaladriel deals the Hero with the highest HP (H)+1 fire damage
-The first time damage is dealt to Thaladriel, Thaladriel deals the source of that damage X fire damage, where X is equal to the damage done to Thaladriel.

Advanced: At the end of the villain turn, Thaladriel deals X hero target's 2 infernal damage, where X equals the number of demon cards in the trash.


Demon, Minion (Qty:13)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Succubus (Qty:2)
HP:7
-The hero with the lowest HP skips their power phase
-The hero with the lowest HP cannot damage Succubus.
-When Succubus is destroyed, the hero with the lowest HP deals themselves 2 psychic damage.
Midnight: "Beware temptation, for it leads to obsession."

Berserker (Qty:3)
HP:10
-At the end of the villain turn, Berserker deals 3 melee damage to the hero target with the most HP
Grom: "They not seem so bad."

Coveter (Qty:2)
HP:5
-At the start of the villain turn, destroy 2 Hero ongoing or equipment cards.
-Cards destroyed this way are place beneath Coveter
-When Coveter is destroyed, return the cards beneath it to their owners trash.
Shade: "They will take your equipment if your not careful."
Zenobia: "They can try."


Gorger (Qty:2)
HP:8
-At the start of the villain turn, Gorger deals 1 melee damage and 2 toxic damage to the hero target with the lowest HP. Gorger then regains 2 HP.
Thaladriel: "Their endless hunger will consume you all."

The Jealous (Qty:2)
HP:5
-At the end of the villain turn, deals X irreducible infernal damage to the hero target with the most cards in play, where x= Half of the # of cards they have in play.
Thaun: "Jealousy will poison a good soul faster than tainted water."

Torpor (Qty:2)
HP:6
-During their turn, a player may skip their play or power phase. If they do neither, they skip their draw phase
Valura: "Come husband, we have not lived so long only to end here."


Ongoing (Qty:3)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud Tyrant (Qty:1)
-When this card is played, destroy all demons in play, then Thaladriel regains X HP, where X= the number of demons in the discard pile.
-At the start of the villain turn, play the top card of the villain deck.
"We Live To Serve" Inscription on demon's collar

Evil Within (Qty:2)
-Play in front of the hero with the second highest HP
-Thaladriel deals that hero (H)-X infernal damage at the start of their turn, where X is equal to the number of demon cards.
Director Payne: "I accepted my darkness long ago. You will not control me."


One-Shot (Qty:9)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tormenting Visions (Qty:3)
-Thaladriel deals (H) psychic damage to the hero with the second highest HP
Zenobia: "My home, my family, all gone!"
Shade: "Don't give in, they are only images."


Hell-Gates (Qty:3)
-Shuffle all demon cards in the villain trash into the villain deck.
-Play the top card of the villain deck.
Sting: "Trans dimensional gates. Takes a lot of power to open one of those. I don't want to meet what is behind them."

Inferno Gaze (Qty:3)
-Thaladriel deals 3 irreducible fire damage to the hero target with the highest HP.
Thaladriel: "My gaze will reduce you to ashes!"



Any suggestions and recommendations would be most appreciated. This is the Third Villain of the series I am creating. My artist is pretty busy so no art yet. Always looking for a new artist if anyone is interested.

(Edit Notes)
-Fixed wording on Proud Tyrant.
-Changed ability on The Jealous
-Reduced amount of Berserkers to 3 and Swat to 3
-Added The Lazy
-Changed targeting of Tormenting Visions
-Changed targeting of Swat
-Adjusted abilities of Thaladriel and added damage ability to Painbringer side.
-Changed title of backside to fit theme
-Added ability to Thaladriel's character cards front side to encourage and help demons stay out to keep pressure on players.
-Removed Swat due to issues with cards mechanics
-Added Evil Within
-Renamed Covetous to Coveter
-Reduced number of phases Torpor skips from 2 to 1 along with rewording to simplify effect.
-Defined X on The Jealous. Yeah, I know, Oops.
-Removed Non-Character portion of Thaladriel's ability.
-Defined trigger of Thaladriel's 2nd ability on Enraged Tyrant
-Fixed wording on destruction effect of Coveter's ability.
-Fixed renaming throughout Coveter's card.
-Simplified first ability of Proud Tyrant to increase flow of card
-Removed Unnecessary part from Evil Within as Theladriel is not a demon.
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Michael Hunter
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Once again, a nice villain design. Really feels like a daemon, and doesn't play much like Apostate, which is good!

I love the seven deadly sin based demons, although thematically makes me a bit sad you don't have room for all seven deadly sins. Succubus is a particularly nice design, seems like she's seducing the target and they rely on their friends to get rid of her. If you pulled 2 Berserkers and maybe 1 copy of a couple of the one-shots, you could have 14 demons and thus 7x2? Maybe for your envy demon you could tweak it a bit so that it deals damage based on how buff the target is - perhaps it deals the target with the most ongoing/equipments X+1 irreducible, where X is the number of ongoing/equipments they have?

Overall, a fair amount of lowest HP target damage, which makes me nervous. Lowest HP hits really aren't that fun in quantity, that one player who happens to play someone squishy like Parse or Lady of the Wood just keeps getting beaten down turn after turn, and they die when everyone else is on 15 or so HP, making the rest of the game boring for that player. Imagine in a 5 player game, say Thaladriel manages to play two Tormenting Visions, combined with the H-1 damage to all each time that's 18 damage on the lowest HP player, they're almost dead and couldn't do anything about it! If you're looking for ways to keep the targeting more interesting than highest HP, 2nd higher HP, most cards in hand or most cards in play are all good options?

I like the idea of Swat, but in truth it seems like it's usually going to hit the last hero in play order. Not sure that's a bad thing, but just bear in mind the damage spread might not be quite what you had in mind.

With Proud Tyrant, does he gain the X HP every turn, or just when its played?

For the flipped side, personally, I'm not a huge fan of damage reflection type abilities on bosses. They don't create a great sense of urgency (you can just sit around healing or gearing up, he's not gonna hit you much until you hit him) and they can't really be played around in an interesting way. Say we get him to flip and we're all on very low health - there are situations where it is genuinely impossible to deal him lethal damage without dying ourselves, I've run into this against the Chairman. Not sure you'd want to keep the reflection at all, but if you did maybe something like the first time he's dealt damage he deals them that much damage? At least that way you could try to be clever by leading with a little attack first?

With many of the target heavy bosses, they can sometimes have slightly repetitive turns - they play a minion, it does its thing, heroes easily knock it down and then beat on the boss a bit, rinse and repeat. They pretty rarely manage to build up a decent army except, as in your case when they start with a few out - but even then once this initial rush is cleared they start to become quite easily controlled. Personally I find it more interesting when there is some interesting decisions on killing minions or not based on how annoying they are rather than just always blowing them away. Dawn is a good example of this - you do want to kill her citizens, but kill too many and she Merges With The Sun, so you often have a reason to leave a few out, where they keep doing their cool things. This also gives you interesting decisions as to WHICH minion you can handle being out. Citizen Spring is not too bad, Autumn can be horrific sometimes, benign others, and Hammer is a bastard who must die ASAP. Dunno if you feel the same way, but if you want the default state to be a few minions doing cool miniony things, there are a few options I could share.
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Joseph Guzman
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Adelphophage wrote:
Once again, a nice villain design. Really feels like a daemon, and doesn't play much like Apostate, which is good!

I love the seven deadly sin based demons, although thematically makes me a bit sad you don't have room for all seven deadly sins. Succubus is a particularly nice design, seems like she's seducing the target and they rely on their friends to get rid of her. If you pulled 2 Berserkers and maybe 1 copy of a couple of the one-shots, you could have 14 demons and thus 7x2? Maybe for your envy demon you could tweak it a bit so that it deals damage based on how buff the target is - perhaps it deals the target with the most ongoing/equipments X+1 irreducible, where X is the number of ongoing/equipments they have?

Overall, a fair amount of lowest HP target damage, which makes me nervous. Lowest HP hits really aren't that fun in quantity, that one player who happens to play someone squishy like Parse or Lady of the Wood just keeps getting beaten down turn after turn, and they die when everyone else is on 15 or so HP, making the rest of the game boring for that player. Imagine in a 5 player game, say Thaladriel manages to play two Tormenting Visions, combined with the H-1 damage to all each time that's 18 damage on the lowest HP player, they're almost dead and couldn't do anything about it! If you're looking for ways to keep the targeting more interesting than highest HP, 2nd higher HP, most cards in hand or most cards in play are all good options?

I like the idea of Swat, but in truth it seems like it's usually going to hit the last hero in play order. Not sure that's a bad thing, but just bear in mind the damage spread might not be quite what you had in mind.

With Proud Tyrant, does he gain the X HP every turn, or just when its played?

For the flipped side, personally, I'm not a huge fan of damage reflection type abilities on bosses. They don't create a great sense of urgency (you can just sit around healing or gearing up, he's not gonna hit you much until you hit him) and they can't really be played around in an interesting way. Say we get him to flip and we're all on very low health - there are situations where it is genuinely impossible to deal him lethal damage without dying ourselves, I've run into this against the Chairman. Not sure you'd want to keep the reflection at all, but if you did maybe something like the first time he's dealt damage he deals them that much damage? At least that way you could try to be clever by leading with a little attack first?

With many of the target heavy bosses, they can sometimes have slightly repetitive turns - they play a minion, it does its thing, heroes easily knock it down and then beat on the boss a bit, rinse and repeat. They pretty rarely manage to build up a decent army except, as in your case when they start with a few out - but even then once this initial rush is cleared they start to become quite easily controlled. Personally I find it more interesting when there is some interesting decisions on killing minions or not based on how annoying they are rather than just always blowing them away. Dawn is a good example of this - you do want to kill her citizens, but kill too many and she Merges With The Sun, so you often have a reason to leave a few out, where they keep doing their cool things. This also gives you interesting decisions as to WHICH minion you can handle being out. Citizen Spring is not too bad, Autumn can be horrific sometimes, benign others, and Hammer is a bastard who must die ASAP. Dunno if you feel the same way, but if you want the default state to be a few minions doing cool miniony things, there are a few options I could share.
I am very interested in that. I would love to make this character feel more minion based on one side and the other a more angry, aggressive beast. Kind of like Darkseid is from DC. Relies on minions at first and later goes in to deal with things himself. Please post any ideas you have and we can work on making Thaladriel better together. I do want to keep with the theme of him being truly evil and a little sadistic in punishing players for doing things. I feel I have not done this well enough to give him this feel. I have made some changes to him and hopefully that puts him on the right track. Think I should just remove Swat or change it? I am on the fence over it. Also I am thinking of adding the ability "Reduce all damage to Non-Character Demon cards by 1" to give him a feel of a leader on his front side.
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Michael Hunter
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The key is that you need to incentivize the players to kill SOME Of the minions, but not ALL Of the minions, that way they have to prioritize who dies which is tactically interesting, and the steady state will have a few minions out doing cool miniony things.

Simplest options I could think of are...
-Your advanced effect could be a base ability of the boss? An extra play when there are no demons out means the heroes have a reason to keep one in play - after all, if we kill it, it's likely to just be replaced, so maybe that Gorger nibbling on our bum is the lesser of two evils.

Alternately, the trigger could be something like "If there are no demons in play, reveal cards from your deck until you find a demon, play it and shuffle the deck.". I used something similar on my Deadline and it does lead to interesting decisions turn to turn. Could easily be trigger if there are less than 2 demons out, or even H-2, depending on how the playtesting is going.

-If there is only 1 (2? H-2?) demons in play (other than Thaladriel) they are indestructible. Alternately, reduce damage done to demons by 2-X, where X is the number of demons in play.

-The third way is just to make their HP high and their effects weak so it's not really worth the players time to kill them, but I find that one less exciting.

For Swat... the mechanic of hitting whoever hit you is cool, but mechanically difficult. In a perfect world it would hit whoever hit you hardest the previous round, but that's a huge pain to remember, especially when he only plays swat after you've played and at the time of dealing damage you didn't even know you needed to remember it. You could keep some of the he's-hitting-whoever-annoyed-him flavour by striking the most cards in play, but then it's like the Jealous. Maybe if he hit the most cards in hand and they had to discard 2? Or half of their hand, maybe?


For your demons, you have Wrath (Berserker), Envy (The Jealous), Greed (Covetous), Sloth (the Lazy, which is not the best name, frankly), Gluttony (the Gorger, great name), Lust (Succubus). By my count, you're missing Pride - or is Thaladriel himself supposed to be Pride?
 
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Joseph Guzman
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Thaladriel is supposed to be Pride as all other sins are technically lesser parts of pride and it was the first sin. Also, I know it was a poor choice of a name, I am drawing a blank on any other name that would feel sloth-ish but also not be lame.

I am getting where your going to reworking his front a little bit and I agree. Will jump on it right now to try and flush him out a bit more.

Swat will be getting replaced with something to weaken a player as this is a sin army. Might as well give a little corruption feel to Thaladriel. Being a demon and all.
 
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Seamus Butler
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Sloth - The Lazy....

Ennui
Torpor
Indolence,
Apathy,
Lethargy,

are a few suggestions.
When in doubt google is your friend, as are thesarus and dictionaries.
 
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Joseph Guzman
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Yeah they are. Just hard to settle on a name that can describe the demon and give a feel of them utilizing their power against a player instead of being lazy itself. I think you nailed the name with Torpor. Thank you for the list.
 
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Joseph Guzman
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Added flavor text to the deck. Any suggestions are welcome.
 
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Michael Hunter
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For the Jealous, I think you need to define X?

Also, Torpor seems really horrible, you'd have to kill that. Maybe if it was just skip one phase?
 
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Take Walker
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Jaggid88 wrote:
-Damage dealt to non-character demon cards is reduced by 2-X, where X is equal to the amount of demons in play.

He doesn't have a Demon keyword himself, so I'm not sure the 'non-character' part is really necessary?

Jaggid88 wrote:
-At the end of the villain turn, if no demon cards were played this turn, Thaladriel deals each non-villain target (H)-1 infernal damage.

I already like the choices this sets up. You want to leave Demons out or you'll have trouble hitting him, and if none come out, you're taking damage.

Jaggid88 wrote:
-Thaladriel deals the Hero with the highest HP (H)+1 fire damage

Does this just happen when he's flipped?

Jaggid88 wrote:
Coveter (Qty:2)
HP:5
-At the start of the villain turn, destroy 2 non-villain equipment and/or ongoing cards.
-Cards destroyed this way are place beneath Covetous
-When Covetous is destroyed, return the cards beneath it to their owners trash.

1) Only heroes have equipment and only heroes and villains have ongoings, so you can make it "Hero ongoing or equipment cards", the standard wording.
2) You changed his name to "Coveter" at some point but not in the card text?
3) Cards going back to their trash happens normally, you don't need to specify it.

Jaggid88 wrote:
The Jealous (Qty:2)
HP:5
-At the end of the villain turn, deals X irreducible infernal damage to the hero target with the most cards in play.

That's a neat effect for Envy, but I agree, what's X? (I'd assume the number of cards they have in play?)

Jaggid88 wrote:
Torpor (Qty:2)
HP:6
-During each heroes turn, that player must pick which 2 phases they will skip that turn.

Oh yes, definitely just make this one phase. The clever way to word it would be "During their turn, a player may skip their play or power phase. If they do neither, they skip their draw phase."

Jaggid88 wrote:
Proud Tyrant (Qty:1)
-When this card is played, destroy all demons in play.
-When Proud Tyrant is played, Thaladriel regains X HP, where X= the number of demons in the discard pile.

That should be a "then Thaladriel regains", instead of "when this is played", to take advantage of the newly destroyed Demons.

Jaggid88 wrote:
Evil Within (Qty:2)
-Play in front of the hero with the second highest HP
-Thaladriel deals that hero (H)-X infernal damage at the start of their turn, where X is equal to the number of demon cards, other than Thaladriel, in play.

Again, you've never specified Thaladriel himself is a Demon.

Looks like a fun fight. You did good with the seven sins themes of the Demons.
 
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Joseph Guzman
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Thank you Adelphophage for pointing those out. Yeah, oops, no idea how I missed defining X. Also you and Takewalker are right and I used Takewalker's wording for Torpor. I like it a lot better.

Takewalker, thank you for your very detailed overview of fixes for the deck. It helped a lot. I put all suggestions from you and Adelphophage into the deck and it has greatly benefitted from it. I personally think the 7 Sin are very interesting and making them a core evil to fight is just really cool. They are root evils, so why not?

Again, thank you both for helping so much with the decks I post and improving them and catching my wording mistakes. Same for everyone else who posts, thank you all. Will try to update 3 to 4 decks a day with flavor text, so as to not overwhelm the forum and to give each one a chance to be read and enjoyed.

If anyone has any suggestions on any flavor text that I post, or deck improvements, I am always open minded and accepting.
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Take Walker
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The flavor text has so far been good. If you're moving toward finalizing these decks, I do note that a lot of cards have unstandard wording that could be fixed. It's the kind of thing I try not to worry about until the whole thing's been thoroughly playtested, though.
 
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Joseph Guzman
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I have yet to playtest any of my villains and a couple of my heroes. My test group fell apart and Holiday season is making things hectic to build a new one. Beginning of next year though, I will be heavily playtesting everything.

I want to try and flush out as much as I can in theorizing before I get to that point, just to reduce the work a little bit.
 
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