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Subject: the problem I have with DLC rss

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the bear
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I see a lot of discussion if 3 dollars is too expensive for a scenario. And to be honest I think 3 dollars is super cheap for the amount of enjoyment and work they've put in creating a scenario. The problem is that you're not buying the scenario. You can't download it, so actually you're just renting it. You don't have the freedom to do with it as you please. It will make them more inclined to protect the software. It makes it more likely the game will not stand the test of time. The fact that you can only have it on one device also reinforces this. I hate DLC for videogames for the same reasons. If I spend more than 200 dollars for a game I expect some kind of ownership. I understand this is just one opinion, but I would rather pay 10 dollars for a scenario and own it.
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Jerome Nowak
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thebearthatwasnt wrote:
I see a lot of discussion if 3 dollars is too expensive for a scenario. And to be honest I think 3 dollars is super cheap for the amount of enjoyment and work they've put in creating a scenario. The problem is that you're not buying the scenario. You can't download it, so actually you're just renting it. You don't have the freedom to do with it as you please. It will make them more inclined to protect the software. It makes it more likely the game will not stand the test of time. The fact that you can only have it on one device also reinforces this. I hate DLC for videogames for the same reasons. If I spend more than 200 dollars for a game I expect some kind of ownership. I understand this is just one opinion, but I would rather pay 10 dollars for a scenario and own it.


Where does it say that this is a new scenario?? Seems to me that all we really KNOW is that there will be "Scenario DLC"... Could just be some tweaks/changes/new puzzles/whathaveyou for pre-existing scenarios.
 
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Jacob Schoberg
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Welcome to the age we live in. This is how things are now. You're welcome to not buy the things you don't agree with, but honestly, it probably won't change much.

Related reading: software as a service, digital rights management, etc.
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John Smith
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Spending the effort to make your own database and login system is a hassle. I don't blame FFG for not wanting to do that for a couple of 3 dollar purchases. Not to mention that you now inconvenience every single person that doesn't care because now they have to login to the product.
 
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Ivelin Belchev
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You don't own many of the digital products you 'buy' anyway - just check your agreements. Even some IP you have on physical media you do not actually 'own'.

If you don't like a particular distribution or monetization model, then don't support it - vote with your wallet. If you're in the large majority, who knows, maybe they would change their model.

I myself don't care about 'owning' digital stuff. At $3 I'd buy that pack without putting any thought into it. If it was $10, I'd be much more reluctant to do so.
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G33k N00B
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Exactly my point in this thread
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Kevin Seachrist
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I guess I see how you're "renting" it, but unless you're required to log in and the company decides to remove it from your app, you own it for the life of your mobile device, and longer if you're staying with the same OS.

Actually on that note, I'd be surprised if I need to purchase it separately for my iPad and iPhone. That's not normally the case.

It's a brave new world. There's a crapton of pros to go with the cons in the case of DLC for MoM. $3 for even a single playthrough is well worth it, assuming no bugs!
 
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Friedmutant
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I have no problems with paying $3 for a quality scenario. My group of four will probably get at least 3 hours of enjoyment out of it. That's pretty good value in my opinion.

My only requirements:
* I can play it *completely* offline
* It's got a good story line

I'm hoping they release an SDK so fans can go wild with homebrew content.
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It's $3...I make almost no money and think that's little. If it's worth even an hour of entertainment is it not enough (much less 3 hours for 4 people)? Does it have to last forever? Do you realistically see yourself playing this 30 years down the road when we probably will have virtual reality etc by then?
 
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Andrew Cargill
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Fatesadvent wrote:
It's $3...I make almost no money and think that's little. If it's worth even an hour of entertainment is it not enough (much less 3 hours for 4 people)? Does it have to last forever? Do you realistically see yourself playing this 30 years down the road when we probably will have virtual reality etc by then?

This is how I see it, similar to buying an itunes song, you don't own the song you own the ability to listen, because of this you're getting it at a heavily reduced cost. In this instance you pay a small fee once and can play it as many times as you want.
 
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Jonathan Challis
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AndrewAU wrote:

This is how I see it, similar to buying an itunes song, you don't own the song you own the ability to listen, because of this you're getting it at a heavily reduced cost. In this instance you pay a small fee once and can play it as many times as you want.


...and I won't buy itunes songs or mp3's I buy physical CD's. I won't pay for Netflix, I buy DVD's, I won't ay for games on Steam I want physical discs to install and play offline...
 
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Andrew Cargill
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Kelanen wrote:
AndrewAU wrote:

This is how I see it, similar to buying an itunes song, you don't own the song you own the ability to listen, because of this you're getting it at a heavily reduced cost. In this instance you pay a small fee once and can play it as many times as you want.


...and I won't buy itunes songs or mp3's I buy physical CD's. I won't pay for Netflix, I buy DVD's, I won't ay for games on Steam I want physical discs to install and play offline...

Then your options are quickly being limited as time passes but that's a compromise you make going physical. Myself I'm not fussed, if it improves the experience for me as a boardgamer and makes my life easier then I'm all for it but maybe that's just me, it's only when it seems to be 'tacked on' that I think it's actually worse off.

As for DLC, again all for it, we seem to be getting physical DLC anyway through FFG's many IP's currently they just cost a lot more. I just paid $14 USD for a single character add-on for Runebound 3rd Edition... had that been on the app it may have only been $5
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J. Chris Miller
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I don't have a necessity to own anything digital entertainment-wise. I mean I bought Time Stories. That's a one time playthrough game, and I had a blast, and I don't regret it. You pay for the experience.
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Freelance Police
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AndrewAU wrote:
Then your options are quickly being limited as time passes but that's a compromise you make going physical.


Meh, my gaming closet has way too much physical as it is. laugh

As a miniature collector, I'm seeing this with .stl files (for 3D printing) as well. Some companies want you to pay for it, some companies are giving it away free. The Pathfinder app lets you grind for gold, or you can pay $25 for the base game and expansions. The good news is that the retail game will be around for awhile, so you can wait and see how the company does or doesn't charge for app content.
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Meeple Up
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In my opinion, it is a repercussion of piracy.

I used to develop apps and the best way to not have the app stolen is to make it free and have in app purchases, "rentals".

The subscription service and in-app purchase is less convenient for the end user unfortunately, but it is better for the producer/developer to make it more difficult to rip off their work.
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Bucho Bucho
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thebearthatwasnt wrote:
I see a lot of discussion if 3 dollars is too expensive for a scenario.


I guess I've missed that. All I've seen is people thinking they'd get the first set of extras for free on account of buying the base game and grumpy that things look to not be going that way.
 
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Everett Daniel
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I don't even have a job and $3 is very easy to scrounge up. Just because you don't have a physical version of it doesn't mean it's not yours. Every single one of my 100+ Steam games and DLC are digital and they're not going away. Will be the same situation with this $3 DLC. With the core set and two figure and tile collections out, I'd much rather see lots of cheap/free digital scenarios which is possible due to the app than unnecessary physical packs which will be more expensive, require shipping and reprints, and are more inconvenient to get. Considering we all paid $80-100 for this game which has only four scenarios, and then $50 each for two other scenarios, $3 is dirt cheap and I wouldn't even care if it was the worst scenario so far. My only complaint is having to buy the DLC twice across Steam and Google Play as I'll play on Steam at home but would use a tablet/phone when away.
 
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Jonathan Challis
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AndrewAU wrote:

Then your options are quickly being limited as time passes but that's a compromise you make going physical.


they are not limited at all - there's far more out there than I can buy. Hell, i own far more than I can play, watch and listen too already.
 
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Andrew Cargill
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Kelanen wrote:
AndrewAU wrote:

Then your options are quickly being limited as time passes but that's a compromise you make going physical.


they are not limited at all - there's far more out there than I can buy. Hell, i own far more than I can play, watch and listen too already.

True, but you still limit yourself to those physical mediums, there are plenty of shows/movies for instance that are only available on Netflix and will never be released as physical, same with songs & even video games.

Now that's not to say don't have options from what has been released already and available physically, but you have limited yourself to all current/future digital releases is I guess what I'm saying.
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Kain
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My movie tickets from last weekend didn't stand the test of time. That said, I enjoyed my experience and memory of that movie is what really matters.

Virtual content as an intangible experience will drive those with materialistic sensibilities insane.

Stop thinking of it as purchasing a physical product and think of it as buying an experience, that, indeed, may have a finite lifespan.
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Dean L
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I used to have the materialistic approach, but then I moved into a flat and just don't have the space any more. Without Steam, iTunes and my Kindle, board games wouldn't even be a possible hobby for me as the shelves would be full.

Also realised I was going to die at some point and no one was going to give a crap about all my stuff.
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Jonathan Challis
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Dark63 wrote:
My movie tickets from last weekend didn't stand the test of time. That said, I enjoyed my experience and memory of that movie is what really matters.

Virtual content as an intangible experience will drive those with materialistic sensibilities insane.

Stop thinking of it as purchasing a physical product and think of it as buying an experience, that, indeed, may have a finite lifespan.


I am materialistic, and I don't value experiences. I almost never go to the movies for example. I value 'stuff' not experiences.
 
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Allen T
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Kelanen wrote:
Dark63 wrote:
My movie tickets from last weekend didn't stand the test of time. That said, I enjoyed my experience and memory of that movie is what really matters.

Virtual content as an intangible experience will drive those with materialistic sensibilities insane.

Stop thinking of it as purchasing a physical product and think of it as buying an experience, that, indeed, may have a finite lifespan.


I am materialistic, and I don't value experiences. I almost never go to the movies for example. I value 'stuff' not experiences.


That's interesting, and odds are good not actually true. For example, I imagine you open a board game and play the game. The value lies not in the physical object, but in the experience of it. Looking at it, interacting with it (physically or mentally), "experiencing" it. A board game like MoM2e has more "value" despite having less "stuff" than a game that consists of a 12'x12' board, 1000 plastic squares, and "gameplay" that consists of placing the squares around the board until it is full.
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Chris P
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Is $3 too much? Depends, I mean they are only creating a little bit of content, but it's only a little bit of money. If you really enjoy the game and played all the scenarios, it might be worth $3 to get some more gameplay out of it, you don't have to pay but you can. I also have to mention, with board games I don't tend to play them all the time. What if I want to put this game away for a couple years and when I come back that DLC isn't working or the app itself doesn't work? Time will tell but I would think I'm beat and out the $3.

Not to mention, we have played a few scenarios a couple times and they do not play out the same! So you can go back and replay missions and have them be different each time.

Will we be buying the new DLC? Yes, when we finish the regular missions. Will I buy more DLCs? Depends if we are still playing the game.
 
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Jonathan Challis
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monkeykins wrote:

Kelanen wrote:

I am materialistic, and I don't value experiences. I almost never go to the movies for example. I value 'stuff' not experiences.


That's interesting, and odds are good not actually true.


It's an oversimplification, but yes it is broadly true.

monkeykins wrote:

For example, I imagine you open a board game and play the game. The value lies not in the physical object, but in the experience of it.


To you... To me it's both. Components and what comes in the box physically is incredibly important to me.

Whilst in theory I wouldn't want to play a bad game with good components, I also wouldn't want to play a good game with bad components. Life is too short, and and there are more good games with good components than I can play, so I won't accept either bad games or bad components.

As a corollary, I pretty much don't mind how much I pay for good production (or over-production as some would see it). I could have had a cheap retail version of Scythe for example, but I have the version with the bigger board, metal coins, realistic resources, etc that is literally twice the price. Now by your metric I have the same game at twice the price, and thus half the value - but by mine I have twice the value...

monkeykins wrote:

Looking at it, interacting with it (physically or mentally), "experiencing" it. A board game like MoM2e has more "value" despite having less "stuff" than a game that consists of a 12'x12' board, 1000 plastic squares, and "gameplay" that consists of placing the squares around the board until it is full.


Again, to you. Assuming i like both games equally, teh latter is far more valuable to me.

It's not about money per se, I can afford whatever I want, but it about what I perceive as value, to me. Something ephemeral, non-physical, and that I can't resell if I wanted will never be good value - to me.
 
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