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Izzy Marsh
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It's 99% the same, except of course set in Arkham. The components are virtually identical too. Was some agreement made with (whoever makes Consulting Detective nowadays) or what?

I mean, its great and stuff, I'm really happy that I backed it and 8th Summit with Spiral Galaxy got the product delivered in superb condition and its a neat product, but I am very surprised that its so incredibly similar (mechanics and content).

 
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Jean-Philippe Garcia Ballester
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There is no intellectual property on mechanics. Content has been rewritten from scratch, so no intellectual property either.
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Izzy Marsh
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No intellectual property on mechanics? So all those D20 system game supplement publishers don't pay anything to WoTC/Hasbro/them folks who own D&D to use that system for their material?
 
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Jean-Philippe Garcia Ballester
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Not for mechanics AFAIK. But if they use art, characters names and lore, trademarks, etc, that's another story.
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trevor

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Old Deep One wrote:
No intellectual property on mechanics? So all those D20 system game supplement publishers don't pay anything to WoTC/Hasbro/them folks who own D&D to use that system for their material?


Well.....no
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B C Z
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To answer the d20 question, look no further than Wizards of the Coast's FAQ:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/srdfaq/20040123a

As summarized on wikipedia:
wikipedia wrote:
Much of the d20 System was released as the System Reference Document (SRD) under the Open Game License (OGL) as Open Game Content (OGC), which allows commercial and non-commercial publishers to release modifications or supplements to the system without paying for the use of the system's associated intellectual property, which is owned by Wizards of the Coast.


In the d20 case, the company specifically granted rights to use the system without further compensation.


In the "Consulting Detective" game, there is no 'system' to grant rights to. Choose-your-own-adventure style books and such have existed in various forms for a while.

Mythos Tales isn't reusing the SHCD directory, they have one of their own.
They aren't reusing the map...
or the newspapers...
or anything.
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Izzy Marsh
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Well, thanks for enlightening me on the mechanics situation guys. That is something I never knew, just kinda assumed stuff like that WAS protected in some way. After all, the mechanics of games are very time consuming to create and a large part of the game itself.

Of course I am aware that images, logos, trademarks are under copyright, but so I dont come off as snarky, thanks for confirming that too.

Still, no one can deny it is a blatant copy, down to the USE OF a directory, map and newspapers, albiet with different content. not exactly original. The small timing device was a novel touch though.

Forgive me if I am (most likely) wrong but I am sure I recall that one of the articles in the first newspaper pretty much does replicate one in Consulting Detective, one that concerns our eastern European friends, but perhaps that is just a friendly nod and wink to the games forebear.

Oh and it is not my intention to 'stir up trouble' in these here parts, just having a friendly chat about it.

cheers all

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Vitaliy
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You may find http://www.strebecklaw.com/court-rules-favor-cloned-tabletop... an interesting read on fairly recent events on this topic.
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Izzy Marsh
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Thanks Vitaliy F, that was a very informative and interesting read. Cheers bud!
 
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Dean L
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Old Deep One wrote:
No intellectual property on mechanics? So all those D20 system game supplement publishers don't pay anything to WoTC/Hasbro/them folks who own D&D to use that system for their material?


Same as all those deckbuilders don't pay anything to the creators of Dominion.

And yes, it is a rethemed SHCD but I think it gets cut a lot of slack because it started as a PnP shared with fans of that game (in the BGG forum) before it was picked up by 8th Summit.
 
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B C Z
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Old Deep One wrote:
The small timing device was a novel touch though.


Technically the timing device isn't new either. Gumshoe had a similar mechanic.

Regardless - all of the written prose is new, so there's no issue.
 
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Matt E.

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Old Deep One wrote:


Still, no one can deny it is a blatant copy, down to the USE OF a directory, map and newspapers, albiet with different content



And thank goodneess they did rip it off, we are in their debt.

Let me ask you something: Worker placement games, economic engine building games, area control games.

How many freaking examples of that do we have?

Now SH:CD, how many clones of that exist?

Exactly, hardly any at all.

So thank you very much to the makers of Mythos Tales to "rip off" SH:CD so we can have some new material in what is an excellent but TINY genre of board games.

And you know why there are so few games in this genre? Because despite the simple mechanics, creating the mystery and story is extremely difficult and time consuming compared to yet another Pandemic clone.

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Will Kenyon
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And thank you ALL for playing our game!

8th Summit and I are talking about doing another project in this vein, and of course, I'm hot to do an expansion for Mythos Tales. Imagine a Hound of Tindalos messing with your time....
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Peter Andersson
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willok wrote:
And thank you ALL for playing our game!

8th Summit and I are talking about doing another project in this vein, and of course, I'm hot to do an expansion for Mythos Tales. Imagine a Hound of Tindalos messing with your time....

Oh that sounds sweet! My game got shipped today, and I really hope to have it before the weekend so I can start playing!
And yes, I'd love to meet a Hound face to face!
 
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Will Kenyon
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You sure about that?
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Charlie Theel
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willok wrote:
And thank you ALL for playing our game!

8th Summit and I are talking about doing another project in this vein, and of course, I'm hot to do an expansion for Mythos Tales. Imagine a Hound of Tindalos messing with your time....


If you're soliciting ideas (which you don't seem to be but that hasn't stopped anyone before), a Gumshoe-like game with a single continuous campaign (and fingerprints/bullet markings) would be amazing.
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Peter Andersson
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willok wrote:
You sure about that?

Hehe, I'm pretty sure it would be really fun trying to out run one in a game.
To meet one in reality would be an entirely different thing.
 
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Will Kenyon
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charlest wrote:
willok wrote:
And thank you ALL for playing our game!

8th Summit and I are talking about doing another project in this vein, and of course, I'm hot to do an expansion for Mythos Tales. Imagine a Hound of Tindalos messing with your time....


If you're soliciting ideas (which you don't seem to be but that hasn't stopped anyone before), a Gumshoe-like game with a single continuous campaign (and fingerprints/bullet markings) would be amazing.


Our idea is gumshoe-ish, actually. The campaign thing isn't there, though. Hmmmmm.
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Freelance Police
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iirc, Mythos tales has some mechanics not in SHCD:
* Sanity rules
* Game states (if you have X, continue reading)

Also, a PnP version of Mythos was available for years (?) before the KS. So the SHCD folks had plenty of time to make any agreement.

Hopefully, future SHCD cases will have a state machine like Mythos (and some Tunnels and Trolls!) adventures do.
 
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Izzy Marsh
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Thanks all for your replies and comments, its been a very informative thread, especially regarding a games mechanics protection. And thanks to Will for dropping by and hinting at some exciting news regarding the future of the game.

Besides the subject of this thread, and in NO way was I/am I ADVOCATING that 8th Summit should be sued - I really like the product and was very excited as most were to see it on Kickstarter.

I appreciate that even though Mythos Tales is literally a Lovecraftian version of SHCD a great amount of work, care and attention has been undertaken to bring this creation to life and into our hands. It is a great product and it is amazing that someone (good on you Hal) thought to get stuck in and bring the idea to fruition. I know full well that Mythos Tales began as a labour of love and a 'fan project', posted for free here on the geek.

Thank you Sam & Max for reminding me that the game does introduce something new regarding Sanity and Game States.

I trust the game has a long future and many reprints are bound to happen, and I look forward very much to any expansions that are released. I also hope that any new product in this line continues to expand on the 'base rules' and add fresh mechanics and components (sealed envelopes with puzzles? More props?) to the experience. It would be pretty neat to have more stuff

I must end with an apology here and that is I regret the title of this thread - in hindsight it does suggest my feelings on this issue are far stronger and accusatory than they actually are.

As an immediate backer of the Kickstarter, I've been following the game avidly since funding and I thank all at 8th Summit and Spiral Galaxy for their efforts.
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Matt E.

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Old Deep One wrote:


I must end with an apology here and that is I regret the title of this thread - in hindsight it does suggest my feelings on this issue are far stronger and accusatory than they actually are.




Ah yes, the title was eyebrow raising.

This type of game, it's like being in a mystery novel that you get to try and solve.

That's a million times more cool than almost any more mechanically complex board game I can think of.

So I for one hope there will be more clones of SH:CD and MT in the future, just so I can have more great experiences.

As for the fine folks behind MT, please bring on more content, I'll certainly be buying it if the quality remains solid.
 
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Mujtaba Walji
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Just imagine, if 8th Summit could be sued, there would be countless companies sued for ripping off Cards Against Humanity.
 
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B C Z
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mujie wrote:
Just imagine, if 8th Summit could be sued, there would be countless companies sued for ripping off Cards Against Humanity.


Yeah... especially given Apples to Apples came out first.
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Paul Bryant
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And if you happen to be in Essen this week you could just get a copy at the Spiral Galaxy Stand, Hall 1 F-148!!
 
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