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Subject: Poll: What do you think about the combat mechanics? rss

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David Umstattd
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Seems that a lot of people are really divided about the combat system in the game. Each side feeling they are in the minority in liking/disliking the combat system.

Well time to find out who's actually all alone in the world! :-D

I mean... let us know if you like or dislike the combat system below.


Poll
What do you think about the combat system?
I like it a lot
I like it a bit
I dislike it a bit
I dislike it a lot
      294 answers
Poll created by David Umstattd
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Joe Pilkus
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I personally feel as though it's eminently playable and quite thematic with the cards. It's a bit wonky, as many have pointed out, but strikes a great balance between something far less structured (say, Risk) and a war-game type arrangement where you're calculating Attack Values and comparing them on a matrix.

Cheers,
Joe

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Jay K
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If this were a true four player game with four different factions and combat between two players took this long to resolve I would probably have more concerns, but in a two player game where both players are involved it is an excellent mini game.

Personally, I think games with mini games contained within them should be done more often.
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I not only "like it a lot" actually I think it fits greatly to the setting.
Combat system is perfect as it is right now: not a matrix nor a Russian roulette, simply perfect.
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Thomas with Subtrendy
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I "dislike it a bit". It's far from being my favorite thing in the game, but I think that the rest of the game sets the bar so high that anything would have been disappointing.

It's dice rolling and card playing. It's nothing new, tried and tested. It's a necessary evil for this game.
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Trey Chambers
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Needs an option for "It's not terrible, but it's obviously the weakest point in an otherwise tight, streamlined, incredible game."
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Scott Lewis
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Shampoo4you wrote:

Needs an option for "It's not terrible, but it's obviously the weakest point in an otherwise tight, streamlined, incredible game."

I think the "dislike it a bit" would probably fit that.
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Jacob Williams
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sigmazero13 wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:

Needs an option for "It's not terrible, but it's obviously the weakest point in an otherwise tight, streamlined, incredible game."

I think the "dislike it a bit" would probably fit that.


Every hipster wants to choose an option not listed in any poll...
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Trey Chambers
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sigmazero13 wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:

Needs an option for "It's not terrible, but it's obviously the weakest point in an otherwise tight, streamlined, incredible game."

I think the "dislike it a bit" would probably fit that.


No, I don't dislike it.
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Paul Paella
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In an otherwise great game, I dislike the combat system, a lot, and hope they offer a replacement mechanism in any expansion they release. i'm sure I'm not along here. The current system doesn't break or ruin the game, but it sure does put a stain on an otherwise A+ game.

Shuffling the cards every combat takes far too much time, there is little variety among the cards, it's 100% obvious what cards should be played every round and how they should be played (offering zero choices, which is why they shouldn't even exist).

There are so many more elegant, interesting, simpler, and quicker solutions, with far greater choices, that they could have used for the leader space and ground values. It boggles my mind this system made it through one playtest session.
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Michael Kiefte
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I take it you didn't look at the results of the poll.

I quite enjoy the combat system and apparently, I'm in the majority. However, people who dislike it really seem to hate it. That's fine. I just don't get why but that's fine.

However, since 80% of respondents like the combat system, I don't see it changing anytime soon.
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Matthieu Fontaines
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Not the best combat system in the absolute, but he best for this game... So like it a lot
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Mattias Elfström
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I think the combat system matches the complexity and quality of the game as a whole. The game is nice without being fantastic or revolutionary.

To those who dislike the combat system: what type of mechanisms would you have liked to see? What other comparable light games have better combat systems?
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Trey Chambers
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Mattias wrote:


To those who dislike the combat system: what type of mechanisms would you have liked to see?


Pure dice-based.

Put some different effects on the dice, and get rid of the stupid cards. They are clunky to use and make combat last waaaaay too long (for big battles).

Leaders stats could just add hits or blocks to combat.
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Mattias Elfström
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Shampoo4you wrote:
Mattias wrote:


To those who dislike the combat system: what type of mechanisms would you have liked to see?


Pure dice-based.

Put some different effects on the dice, and get rid of the stupid cards. They are clunky to use and make combat last waaaaay too long (for big battles).

Leaders stats could just add hits or blocks to combat.

I could see your point. In our games combat usually does not last too long. Perhaps we focus more on other aspects...
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David Umstattd
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Shampoo4you wrote:
Mattias wrote:


To those who dislike the combat system: what type of mechanisms would you have liked to see?


Pure dice-based.

Put some different effects on the dice, and get rid of the stupid cards. They are clunky to use and make combat last waaaaay too long (for big battles).

Leaders stats could just add hits or blocks to combat.


how do they make the combat longer? You either play cards or you don't. Not that complicated. The thing that makes combat a bit unwieldy is the Space vs ground combat system but there isn't really a way to change that without adding a bunch of worse issues.
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Michel D
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The point that I really don't like in this game is that it's possible to attack on the ground when you loose in the space. It seems completely unrealistic. I have not tried yet playing with that "option" to see if it works better.

Another point is the lack of variety in the battle cards. There should be something else than + or - battle dices or limiting losses.

The last, that I dislike only a bit is the dice system, a bit like Risk though its nice the difference between light and heavy weapons.

Otherwize, it's fun, but not great for me. Maybe because I use to play wargames and I was hoping for a bit more of complexity.
It's sometimes compared to War of the Ring, but I think War of the Ring is well better with more variety and different actions possible.
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Scott Lewis
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Leto597 wrote:
The point that I really don't like in this game is that it's possible to attack on the ground when you loose in the space. It seems completely unrealistic.

You're right, it's not like they did that at Endor or anything.


I suspect if you were to change this rule, the Empire would DOMINATE because they have a much easier time building fleets, and to force the Rebel fleets to have to destroy them would be a monumental task. Even if they win, the Rebels are likely to have lost ships along the way, which would equate to losing ground units (making the ground battle that much harder).

Thematically, it can make perfect sense. Space, even space around a planet, is HUGE, so landing troops (covertly or otherwise) is definitely possible.
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Leto597 wrote:
The point that I really don't like in this game is that it's possible to attack on the ground when you loose in the space. It seems completely unrealistic. I have not tried yet playing with that "option" to see if it works better.

Another point is the lack of variety in the battle cards. There should be something else than + or - battle dices or limiting losses.

The last, that I dislike only a bit is the dice system, a bit like Risk though its nice the difference between light and heavy weapons.

Otherwize, it's fun, but not great for me. Maybe because I use to play wargames and I was hoping for a bit more of complexity.
It's sometimes compared to War of the Ring, but I think War of the Ring is well better with more variety and different actions possible.


Sorry, I have to disagree. Star Wars is full of multilayered battles. The Battle for Naboo, basically everything during the Clone Wars, Hoth, Endor, Jakku... Space and ground are almost always relevant. I actually like that a planet can remain contested at the end of a round. Let alone the obvious blockades we see in Star Wars, I think that this is actually a pretty good indicator of the "Civil War" aspect of the Galactic Civil War.
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Michel D
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sigmazero13 wrote:

You're right, it's not like they did that at Endor or anything.


Endor is the perfect exemple of what I meant ;-). If the rebels didn't go there with a very small force and in a shuttle stolen to the empire, they had no chance to go there on the ground.
In the game, you can go with what might be the entire rebel ground forces and land on a planet with just transportation ships even if the Empire has it's entire star destroyers fleet around. Completely unrealistic.
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Leto597 wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:

You're right, it's not like they did that at Endor or anything.


Endor is the perfect exemple of what I meant ;-). If the rebels didn't go there with a very small force and in a shuttle stolen to the empire, they had no chance to go there on the ground.
In the game, you can go with what might could be the entire rebel ground forces and land on a planet with just transportation ships even if the Empire has it's entire star destroyers fleet around. Completely unrealistic.

Yeah, it's not like one of the Rebel ships in the game (Corellian Corvette) is literally called a "blockade runner" or anything...

To be honest, I don't think Endor is a very good example, anyway. The Rebel ground force on Endor wasn't very significant- remember, it was mostly just Han, Leia, Chewie, the droids, and a small strike team. I think the game would better represent this with something like a sabotage mission using Han and Leia.

An example I might think of right off the top of my head is the Battle of Coruscant in the Cartoon Network "Clone Wars" cartoon (not the CGI one) - or, if you prefer something canon, Geonosis could work too, though we see little of the space battle in the film simply because of the perspective of the characters we follow.
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Scott Lewis
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Big or small, my point is is possible.

Regardless, it's also a major balance issue.
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Billy Babel
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I just with we had a set of combat cards that we could keep to make combat a bit more strategic and predictable. I really hate needing to block damage and only being able to pray to the dice gods to really guarantee that you can do it in that combat.
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Ghorro wrote:
In an otherwise great game, I dislike the combat system, a lot, and hope they offer a replacement mechanism in any expansion they release. i'm sure I'm not along here. The current system doesn't break or ruin the game, but it sure does put a stain on an otherwise A+ game.

Shuffling the cards every combat takes far too much time, there is little variety among the cards, it's 100% obvious what cards should be played every round and how they should be played (offering zero choices, which is why they shouldn't even exist).

There are so many more elegant, interesting, simpler, and quicker solutions, with far greater choices, that they could have used for the leader space and ground values. It boggles my mind this system made it through one playtest session.


^ this right here

If 90% of the cards just amount to "inflict damage, block damage, reroll dice", why didn't they just incorporate those effects directly into leader values or saber rolls and bypass the awful cards all together? And don't get me started on how awkward the blocking system is. I don't think there's a single first time player who correctly worked out who gets to block damage when.
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Scott C
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I voted that I like it a lot; I'm a big fan of the way the system elegantly handles the difference in armament directed against capital ships/armored units and that directed against starfighters/infantry. The red/black system ends up distilling a lot of very characterful mechanical crunch into a simple, elegant system that plays much more quickly than a system that promoted similar character in the units might.
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