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roger cox
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If I can get these three rules questions clarified, I'll feel confident teaching it to the Happy Hollow Gamers this weekend.

1. Suppose the Heathens (Canaanites in this example) conquer a different Heathen province which unites it with other Canaanite provinces, thus uniting the kingdom. If the same player (the active player) had a Patriarch in the conquered province, the rules Q&A say that he must try to retreat (even though he is now "amongst friends") does he still HAVE to retreat? If so, could he just retreat into the area the attack came from?

2. If a merchant is in a port province with a road in it, does he get the revenue for both the road AND the port? (Since the revenue rules for priests are pretty explicit, I am guessing 'no', but I'd rather hear from an experienced player or designer.)

3. There is a good bit of rules covering Canaan, the tribe with no start-land, but I missed any reference to this. Suppose the Canaanites are the active kingdom and they attack far enough north to link up with the Assyrian/Babylonian start-land province. The units for Canaan are the same as those for Assyria/Babylonia (purple). Would Assyria/Babylonia be considered part of the active kingdom for the turn?

Thank you.

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Henrik Johansson
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Järfälla
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See Page index to the rules and some helpful definitions.
3: Yes, the color itself is good enough to make a united Kingdom for the Canaanites.
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roger cox
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Thanks for the answer to question 3, Henrik. I read everything of the page referrenced, and I still don't know if merchants get 3 or 5 coins for occupying a road AND port province at the same time (in a 6 player game)[question 2], or what happens when a Patriarch finds himself in a friendly united kingdom after his own province is attacked by the player who owns said Patriarch; it would seem he still has to retreat (his province WAS conquered), but since the attack resulted in a united kingdom, could he not retreat to the place from whence the attack came? It seems unrealistic that a player could attack a province to unite a kingdom (and increase his power), especially when his own patriarch is occupying the province that will unite the kingdom--and then force that patriarch into a position where he must come off the board because he has no legal retreat. [question 1]
 
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O.Shane Balloun
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rogeracox wrote:

2. If a merchant is in a port province with a road in it, does he get the revenue for both the road AND the port? (Since the revenue rules for priests are pretty explicit, I am guessing 'no', but I'd rather hear from an experienced player or designer.)


(My answer presumes a 4-player game.)

I think you bring up a really good question. I had never considered this, assuming that each of the 1 coin/2 coin revenues are mutually exclusive except as to the Priest. But that's only clearly true for the Farmer. In fact, the implication of the Priest's different revenue paradigm is that the Merchant's revenue might also have a different paradigm altogether.

Farmer
The Farmer can either exist in the hills or in the plains, so either he collects 1 or 2 coins.

Priest
However, the Priest collects 1 gold in a city. He then collects an additional 2 gold when in a temple (same city) and/or collects an additional 1 gold if the Ark is there at the city.

So with the Priest, the revenue is not mutually exclusive. The temple revenue is conditional upon the existence of a city (if only because the temple cannot exist without the city. Thus (ignoring the Ark* for the moment), the Priest either collects 1 or 3 gold.

Merchant
So, to your question, does the Merchant collect 3 silver in a land with a port and a road?

We see from the Priest that the 1 coin vs. 2 coin paradigm does not exist. Its 2 gold coins are conditional upon the collection of the 1 coin first.

I think we read the Merchant as collecting 1 coin (if in a road only), 2 coins (if at a port only), or 3 coins (if at a road and a port). That is, we read the rule literally.

The Ark
*The Ark revenue is more ambiguous. I have not been able to tell whether 'additional' here means [also + conditionally upon the city] or whether it merely means [also]. Does the Priest collect the Ark revenue only if in a city and present with the Ark or does the Priest collect the Ark revenue if present with the Ark no matter what?

Thematically, the Ark of the Covenant traveled with the Levites through the desert and was often not actually in a city. They would have been collecting tithes from the people of Israel even while the Ark was residing in the Tabernacle (vs. the Temple), so I strongly lean toward having the Priest collect the Ark revenue regardless whether the Priest and Ark are in a city.

This also seems to fit with the Rule that Priests move with the Ark for free actions.

Thus, when I play (unless one of the designers corrects me), I add 1 gold for any Priest with the Ark of Covenant, regardless of cities.
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Stephen Kendall
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1.The Patriarch is associated with the nation it occupies. It is not amongst 'friends' just because the player has attacked into the province where his Patriarch is situated. The Patriarch must retreat within its own nation provinces.

2. The three Port provinces do not have roads in them.

3. Yes the Assyrians can absorb any Canaanite remnant.
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O.Shane Balloun
United States
Bellingham
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I will play as the Atreides, Bene Gesserit, Emperor, Fremen, Guild, or Harkonnen.
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I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
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Stephen,

Now that I'm looking at the map, it seems silly to have considered the question about whether a merchant can collect road and port income simultaneously. =/

Since you're here, is my understanding of Priest income for the Ark correct? Does the Priest collect income (+1 gold) for the Ark if they are co-located, even if the priest is not in a city?
 
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roger cox
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Thank you Steve!
 
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