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Imperial 2030» Forums » General

Subject: Just to show to you my LOVE rss

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Massimo Sforzo
Italy
Rome
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Hi, everyone.
I've just bought this game; just because I've played Concordia and I still love it, after dozens of sessions (I've bought Germania/Britannia; Salsa; and I'm looking forward to buy Gallia/Corsica); so, I wanted to try another title by Herr Gerdts and I've chosen this one, recently reprinted here in Italy by Cranio Creations.

But I've never played Imperial neither Imperial 2030.

I'm planning to introduce Imperial 2030 to people completely new to the game.

I've read the Rulebook and several posts on the BGG forums.

[First, I do not know you, guys... But let me tell you: I DO REALLY LOVE YOU! Thanks for all your thoughts and suggestions! All the girls and guys here on BGG help me out to get more and more involved into this wonderful hobby!

Ahem, enough with the "captatio benevolentiae"...]

My intention is to play Imperial 2030 with people new to the game (including myself) without the Investor Card and without the Swiss Bank tiles...
So...
Is this a "suicide" for a first session?
Will this scare the fellow gamers at the table?

Thanks for Your attention and potential replies to this post.

Happy gaming, everyone.
Cheers from Rome, Italy!
 
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Carsten Loehn
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Dietzenbach
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I would play with the swiss bank at least in the first session. Unless these are all hardcore gamers, the most frustrating aspect for first time players is losing control of the last country. As you might have already read this is far from being bad, if you understand the game. But for the first game I think it is better if the players have an improved chance to rebuy in a country they like. I for myself think that 2030 should always be played with the swiss bank ( at least if you play with the investor card - I have no experience without it), but an opposite opinion will be readable soon after my post. :
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Ashish Nair
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EDIT: Turns out there is a variant to play without the investor card and swiss bank! However, do emphasise that it is foremost an investment game, with the 'war game' and multiplier track driving the reasons for investing in one country over another.

As long as players understand that the game is about good investments rather than being attached to controlling a country, you should be fine. Abandoning one's country and investing in another player's well-to-do country is a perfectly valid and reasonable strategy. Focus on where countries are on the multiplier track, and think about whether owners of countries intend to advance their countries or abandon them.

Hope at least that's helped, and sorry for any confusion.

-------
Removing the investor card is like...removing the heart of this game. I don't think you could even play without the investor card - pretty sure it's the only way you actually can buy stocks! And without being able to buy more stocks, country ownership would never change, thus the Swiss Bank wouldn't even come into play anyway. Swiss bank is needed when a player has no ownership of a country, otherwise they're at a big disadvantage, imo.

Given that this game is about making the most money via smart investing throughout the game + advancing countries you've invested in, without the investor card, you can't do the former, and with only the latter it turns into a weird 'war game' that never seems to end (trust me, the first time I played, we didn't understand that we were not meant to be overly attached to our starting countries, and thus the game didn't progress much until we realised the actual point of the game - making money, primarily through investments).


As long as players understand that the game is about good investments rather than being attached to controlling a country, you should be fine. Abandoning one's country and investing in another player's well-to-do country is a perfectly valid and reasonable strategy. Focus on where countries are on the multiplier track, and think about whether owners of countries intend to advance their countries or abandon them.

tldr - Keep both investor card and Swiss bank tiles; you'd break the game without the former, and balance would be affected without the latter. Emphasise that it is foremost an investment game, with the 'war game' driving the reasons for investing in one country over another. Hope that's helped!

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Carsten Loehn
Germany
Dietzenbach
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Zhalfrin wrote:
Removing the investor card is like...removing the heart of this game. I don't think you could even play without the investor card - pretty sure it's the only way you actually can buy stocks!


No, the investor regulates who is allowed to buy stocks. Without investor card all players could buy stocks in the country that just passed the investor field. The investor card provides additional money which makes it easier to buy bonds. But there are a lot of players who do not like that kind of inflation.

After hundreds of discussions it looks like there are two preferred ways to play the game:
1. With investor card and with swiss bank
2. Without investor card and without swiss bank

As I only have experience with 1. I can´t say that for sure but maybe there is a real dependency and therefore the other two combinations do not work as well.
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Ashish Nair
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Oh thanks for the clarification - I just rechecked the rules, and it does have a variant for not using the Investor card! I've never played that way and completely did not realise it existed. Serves me right for not checking the rules thoroughly.

I guess you could play the other way if you wanted - I'd have little idea how it changes in flow/experience of the game, since I've never played that way. Sorry for any confusion!
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Chris Broggi
United States
Southwick
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We've played is a couple of times without the investor card and everyone in our group found the experience terrible. We love the game with the investor card however. There are some on here that very vocally disagree with this, however, I would suggest that you start with the investor card.
 
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Benoît Delcorps
Belgium
Bruxelles
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Hi Massimo!

Can you tell us why you want to introduce the game to new players ( yourself included) while using a variant? What do you fear or don't like about the original rules ( with investor card and swiss bank )?

I've only very limited experience with the 'no investor card / swiss bank' variant, but this experience is that it doesn't make the game more easy to grasp, or more fluid... Playing without the investor card means each player must have the opportunity to invest at the end of each country's turn... I'd best reserve this variant for games with more experienced players... And try the vanilla Imperial (2030) for the first game(s).
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Massimo Sforzo
Italy
Rome
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Hi, everyone!

First, thanks for Your replies.

I’ll try to answer to everyone, apologizing for my English…

Benwa wrote:

[...]
Can you tell us why you want to introduce the game to new players ( yourself included) while using a variant? What do you fear or don't like about the original rules ( with investor card and swiss bank )?
[…]


After reading the Rulebook I realized I didn’t like the idea of one player receiving money for free from the Bank (2 millions with the “Investor” tile) neither I liked the idea that one player could force another player to stop by the “Investor”-slice on the Rondel ("Swiss Bank" tile)…

But, well, yesterday we had our first session…

6 Players, all of us new to the game (no one had played neither Imperial before).

For each Great Power I used 2d10 in order to constantly keep track of the money in each national treasury (just because it's an open information; it helped).

We played during night from 10 p.m. to 2 a.m. Central Europe Time (lots of table-talk... ).

Just two guys were a little bit tired…

Overall: What-A-Great-Game!

Zhalfrin wrote:

[...]As long as players understand that the game is about good investments rather than being attached to controlling a country, you should be fine.[...]


I emphasised that and we were fine, right from the bat , thanks

thyl wrote:
I would play with the swiss bank at least in the first session.[…]


broggi wrote:
[...]I would suggest that you start with the investor card.


Yes, we did like suggested by You, guys.

At first, I do not tell them about the variants and we played with both the "Investor"and the "Swiss Bank" tiles.

The funny thing was that, while playing, the other players, after selecting the “Investor”-slice on the Rondel, kept announcing:

“And now I’m going to buy one bond from…”

without having the “Investor” tile…



So, it seemed to me that they would like to play with no-“Investor”-tile variant, because they didn’t realize that only the player with the “Investor” tile could invest, even though the “Investor” tile would constantly pass from hand to hand between players: all the players would have had the chance to invest in one nation. So they will be fine...

(Maybe it was my fault, I just told them about the "Investor" and "Swiss Bank" tile once at the beginning of the game session.)

So I told them that maybe we should try to play without the “Investor” tile in order to get the chance to invest after each active turn, but one player argued that this variant would have made the game slower and slower… (I don't know if that's true)...

So we kept playing with the “Investor” tile: just after many rounds we get it right and no one tryed to buy bonds without the "Investor" or without the "Swiss Bank" tile

During the play-through one player argued that the Swiss Bank was over-powered, but at the end of the game I scored 104 points, ending up second.
I played always without the Swiss Bank tile.
The winner scored 107 points and he had the Swiss Bank tile just for few turns.
One player tried to get the Swiss Bank tile after many round and until the end of the game he played keeping the tile and trying to avoid to get the government of any Great Power. If I recall correctly he ended up third or fourth.

So, I know that just one session is not enough to tell if it would be good to play without the “Investor” tile and/or without the Swiss Bank tile…

But I do know that the game was exciting and it stirred the table-talk (“You should do this…”; “I think the best strategy is…”); it kept us all involved during the sessione and it left us the will to play it again!

Maybe next time we shall try to play with the variants…

Anyway, thanks to you guys for Your replies; thanks to the BGG community for supporting this amazing hobby!

And thanks to Mr. Gerdts for this GEM!

I hope I will get the chance to play the first Imperial (and Antike II and Navegador)…

Incredible designer! I fell in LOVE with him thanks to Concordia! Now I’m really addicted thanks to Imperial 2030! So I NEED to play other games by this Author!



Happy gaming, everyone!


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Benoît Delcorps
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Effort wrote:

After reading the Rulebook I realized I didn’t like the idea of one player receiving money for free from the Bank (2 millions with the “Investor” tile)

Well, you could have seen it another way ; it's not ONE player that gets money for free. EACH and every player receives this money at the right moment (=when he gets the opportunity to invest)
Effort wrote:

neither I liked the idea that one player could force another player to stop by the “Investor”-slice on the Rondel ("Swiss Bank" tile)…

This is a quite exceptional situation . Most often, it doesn't even occure once in the game. Don't forget the swiss bank can't force the investor stop if the country hasn't enough money to pay all it's shareholders.

Most often, the controlling player wants to stop on investor to get his ROI.

Effort wrote:

one player argued that this variant would have made the game slower and slower… (I don't know if that's true)...


Yes, it makes the game slower, and probably not for the reasons you think of

It's not so much the fact that each player has the opportunity to invest after each country's turn (even if it's not allways a simple decision, so you better play with fast players), but much more the fact that :
- without the investor card, there's much less money injected in the overall economy of the game. Those 2 millions seems not much, but each time the 6 countries revolve around the rondel, that means 12 millions are injected in the economy of the game, so after a few turns, it's a huge amount of money which is usually invested in countries and which is absent from the "no investor" card variant. With the variant, you really struggle to get money to make bigger investments, and this considerably changes the way you must handle the taxation phase.

Effort wrote:

I hope I will get the chance to play the first Imperial (and Antike II and Navegador)…

Imperial is not so much different from Imperial 2030, the differences are subtle... so maybe you better try Navegador and Antike II first

Last comment, Imperial (2030) is a game that scales very well from 3 to 6 players, but of all those player counts, 6 players is probably the game i like the less. So maybe you could try different player counts also : it significantly changes the game experience (for example, with the original rules, less players means everyone gets to invest more often

Effort wrote:

Happy gaming, everyone!


To you too

EDIT : spelling
 
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Paul
Canada
Calgary
Alberta
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Effort wrote:
For each Great Power I used 2d10 in order to constantly keep track of the money in each national treasury (just because it's an open information; it helped).

Poker chips also work well for money in this game so everyone easily see the state of the treasury. Glad you had a good experience. 6 player games can get boring and long, especially if the Swiss investors are AP prone.
 
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Sjoerd
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As others already have pointed out, it might be better to play the first games with the investor card. I would suggest so too, as it gives people who made mistakes (wrong investments) a better chance into the game, because they still receive some money.

On top of that: I have played this game a lot of times by now, mostly with the same experienced group, and we still play it with both the investor card and the Swiss bank. For us it feels like a more strategic game that way.

Quote:
The funny thing was that, while playing, the other players, after selecting the “Investor”-slice on the Rondel, kept announcing:

“And now I’m going to buy one bond from…”


This is exactly what I notice when playing with new players and also what I recall from my first games. It's not the problem of the investor card, but of your priorities. The investor space is not primarily about investing, but more about getting money. And newer players tend to not be focused enough on the money and more on controlling countries.

 
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Mike F
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I love the investor card. It adds a dynamic layer to the game.

You should always be looking out for who's getting the card soon and how long it might be before it comes around to you.

For example, I recently built-up the USA into a huge military force on the doorstep of my other big investment - Brazil. The person holding the investment card had zero invested in Brazil, so was very happy to use it take control of the USA and raid my Brazil. That probably wouldn't have happened if the person holding the investor card had bonds in Brazil, so it's all about timing and paying attention.

If you have the investor card, or are going to get it soon, you might be more keen to use the investor spot on the rondel to store-up cash.

Players can even conspire to move the investor card around the table more quickly, perhaps in order to rush to seize control of a country before it attacks their neighbouring investments.

All good stuff.
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Martin J.

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I have just a question too.
Do you can buy every bond and more if i want from the same nation.
Or when i have allready bonds from a nation, i can only upgrade bonds or both buy and upgrade.
And what i understood, you only allowed to buy bonds from the nation, which passed the investor field correct.

We had in our group first "Antike 2" then "Concordia" and at least "Navigador".
All these games have their own focus.
Now, we will test Imperial 2030 maybe too.
 
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Chris Broggi
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Buying bonds depends on if you are using the investor card or not.
If playing with the investor card, only the player with the investor card Swiss bank can invest, but they can invest in any country.
If playing without the investor card, any player can invest but only can invest in the company who's turn just ended.
 
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