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Tiny Epic Western» Forums » Variants

Subject: Industry ain't industry anymore rss

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François Varloot
France
Meudon
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GREAT GAME!!!!
And great support on BGG!!!!

Now is it me or are the industrial VP bonus (end of game VP for majority shareholders) not as good as they should be to make them worth fighting for?

Played a few 4 players games over the week-end and each time the VP value on the buildings seems to be such that you are always wining if you choose to buy the highest direct building VP value rather than a lower one that would give you more industrial chances of majority.
Building value at end of game was around 14-16 pts for the best players, and industry only gave an advantage of some 4-6 pts if you compare two scores. Seems better (less risky) to fight for 2 more buildings without caring about industies on the cards (especially as the two more buildings may actually be enough to give you good industry VP).

Ultimately, it feels like industry is just a nice bonus at the end where it could have been a much more competitive struggle.

We are considering increasing the value of the Town Hall industry VP. Would really appreciate some feedback on that idea from Gamelyn (what was the return of experience while testing VP values?).
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Spike K
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21-19-19-15

I had 15, but only got one bonus of 3. If I had bought the better shares, I could have had more bonuses. Winner at 21 had I believe the more valuable buildings and +3 bonus at the end.

Sometimes all you can do is afford a 3-4 cost building vs the 5-6 buildings.
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John H
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Metro Detroit Area
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The lower cost and by design less VP buildings have more industry icons, increasing your chances to get larger bonuses. I think this is a nice balance aspect to the game. I like the bonus system as is so far, as it adds distinction between collecting around the same number of buildings, but not over compensation for hoarding low cost ones.
 
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Brad103
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Skaneateles
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RollD6 wrote:
The lower cost and by design less VP buildings have more industry icons, increasing your chances to get larger bonuses. I think this is a nice balance aspect to the game. I like the bonus system as is so far, as it adds distinction between collecting around the same number of buildings, but not over compensation for hoarding low cost ones.


This ^
If you're raking in the influence than you can go for the high cost high VP buildings. But if not, those cheaper buildings are (generally) easier to get Industry Bonuses with. Of course you'll still need to work with the Industry track and/or win the poker hand to adjust it to your needs.
 
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Matthew Barille
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I also felt this is an issue. The industry VPs do need to be slightly higher, as taking a 1 point building over a 4 just for industry will be a wash at best, at thats only if the industry from that building puts you on top. Between the imbalance of player powers and the weak use of the end game bonus this game is obviously in need of some house ruling. This may be acceptable for a first game from a company, but by this time they should have learned how to playtest their games. Wont give another dime to Gamelyn.
 
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François Varloot
France
Meudon
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RollD6 wrote:
The lower cost and by design less VP buildings have more industry icons, increasing your chances to get larger bonuses. I think this is a nice balance aspect to the game. I like the bonus system as is so far, as it adds distinction between collecting around the same number of buildings, but not over compensation for hoarding low cost ones.


I agree that the "less VP buildings have more industry icons" is great idea and I love it. I'm just questioning whether it's accurately balanced.

 
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Brad103
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Skaneateles
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Frencois wrote:
I agree that the "less VP buildings have more industry icons" is great idea and I love it. I'm just questioning whether it's accurately balanced.


Well let's take a look

We have 30 buildings:
Cost
3
4
5
6
Industry
3
2
2
1
Points
1
2
3
4
Cost/Industry
1
2
2.5
6
Cost/Point
3
2
1.66
1.5
Total Cards
6
12
9
3
So, for the cheapest buildings, costing 3 Influence, you're getting 3 Industry, and 1 Victory Point. The expensive buildings give only 1 Industry, but 4 Victory Points. The 4, and 5 cost buildings sit between. Also, there are only three 6 Influence cost (1 Industry) cards in the game, while most cards cost 4 Influence and have 2 Industry icons.

---

Here are the totals for all the buildings:
Total
Bldgs

30
Law
Cost

44
Gold
Cost

43
Force
Cost

42
Mines
Icons

21
Railroad
Icons

21
Wagon
Icons

21
Total
Points

69
Everything looks balanced (+-1).

---

Looking at the Average Influence Costs / Industry Type:

Law
Gold
Force
Mine
1.59
1.48
1.54
Rail
1.64
1.76
1.35
Wagon
1.27
1.76
1.70
Here we see that Mines cost a bit more Law on average. Rail and Wagons both cost a bit more Gold than Law or Force.

Info taken from the card list uploaded by Natsula here: https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/138071/tiny-epic-western-...
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Matthew Barille
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I think the balance question is about whether or not the industry points are worth going for in comparison to going for points from buildings.
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Tolis Koutsikos

Athens
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Without taking costs and potential industries point rewards in question, VP from buildings are worth more (and that's why they cost more as is proper).
That makes 3VP, 2 Industry buildings particularly valuable.

Depending on
1)your available influence
2)the potential point swing for your final standing in each industry share, compared to other players'
3)the building's ability and how easy you could access it next turn

you could prioritize a low VP building over a higher one. But it's really conditional depending on board position.
 
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