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Subject: Given Trumps recent meltdown, could Bernie have won against him ? rss

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jeremy cobert
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I thought Bernie was was beating Trump in head to head polls back before he got booted. If the DNC had not rigged the game and he had won, could he have beaten Trump knowing all we know now ?

It seems like the far left really missed out on an opportunity here.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Yes, but I always felt that.

I just think now it would have been more certain.
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J.D. Hall
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jeremycobert wrote:
I thought Bernie was was beating Trump in head to head polls back before he got booted. If the DNC had not rigged the game and he had won, could he have beaten Trump knowing all we know now ?

It seems like the far left really missed out on an opportunity here.


Absolutely. Sanders' lead would be double-digits at the very least, and here's why: Trump's supporters and Sanders' supporters have one "YUUUGGGEEE" thing in common: they detest the current political climate and want radical change in the federal government. But Sanders is a man with proposed solutions* that are fairly detailed and are consistent with a 30-year career in politics. Trump has no record of actually advocating for serious political change until he decided to run for president. Plus, Sanders can pull in a demographic that is totally lost to Trump (and Clinton) -- voters aged 18-24.

Yeah, Sanders would be killing Trump in the polls, and would crush him in the election. It still amazes me that the two major political parties in the US managed to nominate the two worst candidates seeking their nominations. Oy vey.

*--you may not like Sanders' proposals, but you'd have to admit there's more meat on those bones than the proposals Trump is making
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Chapel
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jeremycobert wrote:


It seems like the far left really missed out on an opportunity here.


The far left didn't miss their opportunity, there just wasn't enough of them to succeed. "rigged" or not, they still were short 4 million votes.
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So a race between:

a delusional, clueless, sleazy billionaire scamming his voters into thinking he has the interests of the little guy at heart

vs.

a delusional, clueless, old socialist scamming his voters into thinking they can have everything for free because apparently tax-money grows on trees

Suddenly HRC doesn't look so bad.
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Les Marshall
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jeremycobert wrote:
I thought Bernie was was beating Trump in head to head polls back before he got booted. If the DNC had not rigged the game and he had won, could he have beaten Trump knowing all we know now ?

It seems like the far left really missed out on an opportunity here.


Sure, but, contrary to so much rhetoric here, the far left isn't necessarily the dominant arm of the democratic party. I've argued before that the democrats moved toward the center during the Reagan/Bush years. Bill Clintons embrace of NAFTA against union opposition was certainly evidence of that.

Bernie was a bit of a rock star like Trump and capable of mobilizing very enthusiastic support among those discontented with the direction of the democratic party and with the economic standing of the lower and middle class. However, he was a self described socialist (and Jewish though I am loathe to think that really matters) and while such labels have little true relevance, it would have played significantly to the right wing who were already making hay during the primary season.

However, you may be correct. If Hillary weren't around, I wonder if Trumps rhetoric might well have tapped into anti semitism and all of it's ugly stereotypes.
 
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MWChapel wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:


It seems like the far left really missed out on an opportunity here.


The far left didn't miss their opportunity, there just wasn't enough of them to succeed. "rigged" or not, they still were short 4 million votes.


Agreed. (And I like Sanders.)

We didn't win, so be it; it wasn't because of superdelegates.
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Wendell
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I think Sanders would be ahead, but hard to say. Also, we don't know what oppo research the RNC would have on Sanders.
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Tom McVey
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wifwendell wrote:
I think Sanders would be ahead, but hard to say. Also, we don't know what oppo research the RNC would have on Sanders.


The bankruptcy of the college Bernie's wife was president of would have been an issue, for sure.
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William Boykin
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Drew1365 wrote:
Recent e-mail revelations show that the Democrats were scared shitless that someone other than Trump would be the GOP nominee, and seriously threaten Hillary's rise to power. That's why they had to make sure Trump got the nomination.



Trojan Horse!!

The GOP Establishment is even worse for giving Killary what she wanted, even if it meant destroying the political careers of every Establishment politician- even Ted Cruz, Im Establishment-zero!

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Tom McVey
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Drew1365 wrote:
Recent e-mail revelations show that the Democrats were scared shitless that someone other than Trump would be the GOP nominee, and seriously threaten Hillary's rise to power. That's why they had to make sure Trump got the nomination.


It sure was a stroke of genius giving Wasserman-Schultz the codes for the Orbital Mind Control Lasers...




... to make sure the GOP electorate voted the way the DNC wanted.
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Mike Stiles
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I don't think Sanders had the gravitas or background to push Trump over the edge.

The fact that Clinton is Clinton (A woman whom 'everyone hates') and is leading him has driven the breakdowns.

~~~

I see a Sanders-trump debate being more like the primaries were, I think.
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Pete Goch
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Drew1365 wrote:
Recent e-mail revelations show that the Democrats were scared shitless that someone other than Trump would be the GOP nominee, and seriously threaten Hillary's rise to power. That's why they had to make sure Trump got the nomination.



So, the DNC has the power to manipulate Republican voters into voting for the candidate of their choice?

They also have the power to manipulate the Democratic vote for the candidate of their choice?

But they don't have the power to manipulate the general electorate into voting for the candidate of their choice?

How did you get to be such a moron?
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I'm fairly certain an indicted ham sandwich could beat trump at this point.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Drew1365 wrote:
tmcvey wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Recent e-mail revelations show that the Democrats were scared shitless that someone other than Trump would be the GOP nominee, and seriously threaten Hillary's rise to power. That's why they had to make sure Trump got the nomination.


It sure was a stroke of genius giving Wasserman-Schultz the codes for the Orbital Mind Control Lasers to make sure the GOP electorate voted the way the DNC wanted.


What did you think all the free publicity for Trump was about? This isn't some new insight. The whole point of giving Trump as much airtime as he wanted was to ensure that he got the GOP nomination. You have been told that it's all about money. But Trump spent very little. It's all about exposure. The media decide who to cover, who to ignore, who to promote, who to destroy.

When the media is (often literally) married to the DNC, this is what you get: Hillary and Trump.
So basically the average GOP supporter is so dense that if he is told by the media to put his cock in a lions mouth and smack the lions love spuds with a wet towel he wouild do so?

Do they also tell them which way did he go?
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Mike Stiles
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Drew1365 wrote:
TheOneTrueZeke wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Recent e-mail revelations show that the Democrats were scared shitless that someone other than Trump would be the GOP nominee, and seriously threaten Hillary's rise to power. That's why they had to make sure Trump got the nomination.



So, the DNC has the power to manipulate Republican voters into voting for the candidate of their choice?

They also have the power to manipulate the Democratic vote for the candidate of their choice?


Did you really think that Bernie stood a chance? Because all the leaked e-mails have shown over and over that the fix was in from the start.


You and Jeremy's desperate attempts to seed dissent on the left are cute.

Sad, but cute.

Like a kitten that can't quite make it up onto a sofa.
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Junior McSpiffy
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I could have voted for Sanders. I hate his politics and find his pie-in-the-sky promises of free free free because we're gonna pillage the rich to be really bad. But it would change the paradigm of "I can't vote for either of them." I can't vote for Hillary because I find her totally devoid of ethics and she would only further the creation of monied politics in America today. But if I felt my vote would keep Trump out of office and I could vote for the guy who could do it, I could pull that trigger. I'd have to look a lot more closely at Johnson v Sanders. But as it is, I can't vote for someone who I would have to keep just as far from the White House as Trump. Unacceptable-lite is still unacceptable.

But Sanders... say what you will about his politics. But the man has integrity. And I would risk the failing of his policies being put into action to have someone I could trust as a person. And I'd like to think I'm not alone in that.
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GameCrossing wrote:
I could have voted for Sanders. I hate his politics and find his pie-in-the-sky promises of free free free because we're gonna pillage the rich to be really bad. But it would change the paradigm of "I can't vote for either of them." I can't vote for Hillary because I find her totally devoid of ethics and she would only further the creation of monied politics in America today. But if I felt my vote would keep Trump out of office and I could vote for the guy who could do it, I could pull that trigger. I'd have to look a lot more closely at Johnson v Sanders. But as it is, I can't vote for someone who I would have to keep just as far from the White House as Trump. Unacceptable-lite is still unacceptable.

But Sanders... say what you will about his politics. But the man has integrity. And I would risk the failing of his policies being put into action to have someone I could trust as a person. And I'd like to think I'm not alone in that.


I've had coworkers say similar stuff -- they might strongly disagree with his policies, but they think he's honest and has integrity.
 
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Xuzu Horror
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Drew1365 wrote:
tmcvey wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Recent e-mail revelations show that the Democrats were scared shitless that someone other than Trump would be the GOP nominee, and seriously threaten Hillary's rise to power. That's why they had to make sure Trump got the nomination.


It sure was a stroke of genius giving Wasserman-Schultz the codes for the Orbital Mind Control Lasers to make sure the GOP electorate voted the way the DNC wanted.


What did you think all the free publicity for Trump was about? This isn't some new insight. The whole point of giving Trump as much airtime as he wanted was to ensure that he got the GOP nomination. You have been told that it's all about money. But Trump spent very little. It's all about exposure. The media decide who to cover, who to ignore, who to promote, who to destroy.

When the media is (often literally) married to the DNC, this is what you get: Hillary and Trump.


The free publicity is because the media likes to report shocking information, and Trump gives plenty of that.

It's nothing more nefarious than that for the most part.

Does it have consequences? For sure. But, the intent was viewer traffic not manipulating people into wanting Trump.

I'm sure some pro-Trump media outlets that doesn't apply to, but I assume you are referring to independent or liberal media.
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Pete Goch
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Drew1365 wrote:
tmcvey wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Recent e-mail revelations show that the Democrats were scared shitless that someone other than Trump would be the GOP nominee, and seriously threaten Hillary's rise to power. That's why they had to make sure Trump got the nomination.


It sure was a stroke of genius giving Wasserman-Schultz the codes for the Orbital Mind Control Lasers to make sure the GOP electorate voted the way the DNC wanted.


What did you think all the free publicity for Trump was about? This isn't some new insight. The whole point of giving Trump as much airtime as he wanted was to ensure that he got the GOP nomination. You have been told that it's all about money. But Trump spent very little. It's all about exposure. The media decide who to cover, who to ignore, who to promote, who to destroy.

When the media is (often literally) married to the DNC, this is what you get: Hillary and Trump.



Trump is a media whore and he gets good ratings. That's what all the free publicity was about.

How much of a moron do you have to be to not get that?
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Boaty McBoatface
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TheOneTrueZeke wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
tmcvey wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Recent e-mail revelations show that the Democrats were scared shitless that someone other than Trump would be the GOP nominee, and seriously threaten Hillary's rise to power. That's why they had to make sure Trump got the nomination.


It sure was a stroke of genius giving Wasserman-Schultz the codes for the Orbital Mind Control Lasers to make sure the GOP electorate voted the way the DNC wanted.


What did you think all the free publicity for Trump was about? This isn't some new insight. The whole point of giving Trump as much airtime as he wanted was to ensure that he got the GOP nomination. You have been told that it's all about money. But Trump spent very little. It's all about exposure. The media decide who to cover, who to ignore, who to promote, who to destroy.

When the media is (often literally) married to the DNC, this is what you get: Hillary and Trump.



Trump is a media whore and he gets good ratings. That's what all the free publicity was about.

How much of a moron do you have to be to not get that?
Apparently a GOP member.
 
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GameCrossing wrote:
I could have voted for Sanders. I hate his politics and find his pie-in-the-sky promises of free free free because we're gonna pillage the rich to be really bad. But it would change the paradigm of "I can't vote for either of them." I can't vote for Hillary because I find her totally devoid of ethics and she would only further the creation of monied politics in America today. But if I felt my vote would keep Trump out of office and I could vote for the guy who could do it, I could pull that trigger. I'd have to look a lot more closely at Johnson v Sanders. But as it is, I can't vote for someone who I would have to keep just as far from the White House as Trump. Unacceptable-lite is still unacceptable.

But Sanders... say what you will about his politics. But the man has integrity. And I would risk the failing of his policies being put into action to have someone I could trust as a person. And I'd like to think I'm not alone in that.


And imagine his policy proposals would have actually worked (as in many other countries) and improved the livelihood of most Americans...what horror! laugh

(Not that I think he would have stood a chance of implementing anything of significance as the GOP would have doubled down on its strategy of stalling everything coming from the White House.)
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jeremy cobert
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GameCrossing wrote:
But Sanders... say what you will about his politics. But the man has integrity.


What ? are you trolling here ? He took a freaking pay off to endorse the candidate that he railed against.

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jeremycobert wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
But Sanders... say what you will about his politics. But the man has integrity.


What ? are you trolling here ? He took a freaking pay off to endorse the candidate that he railed against.

When they were in the Senate together they voted the same way 93% of the time. So why is it so strange that he's endorsing her? Trump has much less in common with, say, Cruz.
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jeremycobert wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
But Sanders... say what you will about his politics. But the man has integrity.


What ? are you trolling here ? He took a freaking pay off to endorse the candidate that he railed against.


That would only be true if Sanders intended to try to have people switch to 3rd parties. Instead, he is working to change the Democratic party.

In that case, the only option that makes any sense is for him to support the Democratic candidate as long as he feels that candidate was willing to shift some of her positions or adopt some of his new positions as a compromise. That happened.

What, is he going to get Trump to do that? Nope.

You may dislike the person, but view it from his perspective. Just because he's not looking to do a scorched earth campaign for all who oppose his views, doesn't mean he's selling out. It means he's looking at the long game, not the short game, which is the best way for long term gains.
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