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Subject: Help vs. blue? rss

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Jacob Black
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How do you keep a player that starts the game off with 3 blue specialists and gets the first blue mission from running away with the game?
 
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This Guy
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How many people were playing?

We've only played 2 player twice so far, but both games had me running away with it. Getting the first blue job and the specialist boost put me far ahead, fast.

Two player games felt like a variant to help get it to the table when you don't have a quorum, especially since there are several cards that seemed problematic or inferior in 2 player games.
 
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Tim J
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Can you explain a little more?

I've only played it once, with 4 people, but this is clearly a gang-up-on-the-leader game. So my best answer to your question is: gang up on the player you think is strongest.

I've not played 2-player, but my guess is that Captain Ordinary is right. gang-up-on-the-leader games usually don't work 2-player.
 
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Julian Wasson
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The main advantage of an early tier-1 blue mission is you now have a lot of cards in hand to do missions with. Instead of trying to go toe-to-toe and competing on missions, have you tried focusing on recursion and direct theft instead?

Remember Pickpocket is worth 4 points every time in a 2-player game. If you can pick up a couple Protégés or Femmes Fatales (anything that lets you get multiple uses of a single card) and hammer their Stash at every opportunity, you can keep up. If you can manage to snag a couple missions and/or end the game early by coins to keep those 8-point bonuses away from them, you can cut off a lot of their high-end scoring potential. It's not flawless, but it's worked pretty well for me.
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Helen Slater
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Cosmonaut Zero wrote:
The main advantage of an early tier-1 blue mission is you now have a lot of cards in hand to do missions with. Instead of trying to go toe-to-toe and competing on missions, have you tried focusing on recursion and direct theft instead?

Remember Pickpocket is worth 4 points every time in a 2-player game. If you can pick up a couple Protégés or Femmes Fatales (anything that lets you get multiple uses of a single card) and hammer their Stash at every opportunity, you can keep up. If you can manage to snag a couple missions and/or end the game early by coins to keep those 8-point bonuses away from them, you can cut off a lot of their high-end scoring potential. It's not flawless, but it's worked pretty well for me.


I agree with these comments. Also there's the "Blackmailer" card so you can swap job cards with the player who appears to be winning to try to mess up their job bonuses? Depends if you can get this card in your hand though of course.

Much to my surprise I did win once just concentrating on nicking money, both from the coffers and from other players, more than trying to complete the jobs. I'm not sure how often you could get away with that strategy though! I think the other players didn't see me as a threat because my job cards weren't building up, but my stash was enough to win.
 
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Julian Wasson
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Darla wrote:
Cosmonaut Zero wrote:
The main advantage of an early tier-1 blue mission is you now have a lot of cards in hand to do missions with. Instead of trying to go toe-to-toe and competing on missions, have you tried focusing on recursion and direct theft instead?

Remember Pickpocket is worth 4 points every time in a 2-player game. If you can pick up a couple Protégés or Femmes Fatales (anything that lets you get multiple uses of a single card) and hammer their Stash at every opportunity, you can keep up. If you can manage to snag a couple missions and/or end the game early by coins to keep those 8-point bonuses away from them, you can cut off a lot of their high-end scoring potential. It's not flawless, but it's worked pretty well for me.


I agree with these comments. Also there's the "Blackmailer" card so you can swap job cards with the player who appears to be winning to try to mess up their job bonuses? Depends if you can get this card in your hand though of course.

Much to my surprise I did win once just concentrating on nicking money, both from the coffers and from other players, more than trying to complete the jobs. I'm not sure how often you could get away with that strategy though! I think the other players didn't see me as a threat because my job cards weren't building up, but my stash was enough to win.


Another way to mess with an opponent with an early card advantage is to use Inside Man or Enforcer to mess with their hand and try to keep the Femmes and Wheelmen away from them. That big hand is great and all, but if all those cards are tied up in missions and they have no way to hurry them back it the efficiency loss is rough.

Though, hearing multiple people saying this is a problem and hearing that players in Darla's group didn't see a direct-theft-heavy strat as a threat, I wonder if people have a bit of a tendency to overvalue collecting missions? I'm curious what the designers impressions are, being very experienced with the game and demoing to new players.
 
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Helen Slater
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Cosmonaut Zero wrote:


Though, hearing multiple people saying this is a problem and hearing that players in Darla's group didn't see a direct-theft-heavy strat as a threat, I wonder if people have a bit of a tendency to overvalue collecting missions? I'm curious what the designers impressions are, being very experienced with the game and demoing to new players.


You could be right. It would be interesting to hear if the designers report whether or not new players focus on completing the jobs over grabbing the money.

I think it was our inexperience with the game that caused us to focus on completing the jobs/missions. In this particular game, for whatever reason, I was struggling with getting the cards I wanted into my hand (it was more likely to be me playing sub-optimally than a fault with the game!). So I changed my strategy and prioritised going directly for money instead of completing the jobs. Whilst playing we tend to check out which completed jobs people have collected, but our inexperience has caused us to not keep such as close an eye on each other's stashes. I think if I tried a money grabbing strategy again my opponents would notice it sooner and try to change their gameplay accordingly!
 
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Mike Cross
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Blue jobs are OP. A player can really snowball and have a huge hand of cards and dominate. Two things we have done that work well. One way is the other players gang up on the guy who completes a couple blue jobs. He may win the jobs but lose a ton of money.

Second thing is we have played with the pink jobs instead of the blue for 3 player games.
 
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