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Terraforming Mars» Forums » Rules

Subject: Draw pile empty rss

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Nathan Andersen
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What are you supposed to do when there are no more cards in the draw pile?

The rules don't say but every time we play with 4 players the last turn or two there are no cards left in the draw pile.
 
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Marlon Kruis
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But there are cards in the discard pile I assume?
It would be logical to shuffle does and form a new draw pile.
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mfl134
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el_crosso wrote:
But there are cards in the discard pile I assume?
It would be logical to shuffle does and form a new draw pile.


It would be equally logical to say they would have told you to shuffle if the draw pile runs out, thus, you just don't draw cards anymore as there are none to draw.

I'm mostly curious how the games are lasting that long. When we played with 2 players, the game went 9 generations (Or 11 if we miscounted). But since the end conditions don't change by player count, I'd assume less rounds in games with more players.

I'd note this was the beginners game, where we likely had more cards or money, so perhaps the game might go around 12 rounds for 2 player.


Just to make sure, since many others have done this wrong, are you playing every round until everyone passes and not just doing 0/1/2 actions per generation?
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Florian Ruckeisen
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You shuffle the discards and make a new draw pile.

mfl134 wrote:
I'm mostly curious how the games are lasting that long.

It's fairly common at higher player counts and without the +1 starting production bonus.
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Örjan Almén
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mfl134 wrote:

Just to make sure, since many others have done this wrong, are you playing every round until everyone passes and not just doing 0/1/2 actions per generation?


You can't do no (0) actions without passing.


Games seem to be usually between 5 and 14 generations, fewer generations for more players.
 
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mfl134
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Snapshot wrote:
You shuffle the discards and make a new draw pile.

mfl134 wrote:
I'm mostly curious how the games are lasting that long.

It's fairly common at higher player counts and without the +1 starting production bonus.


but if you don't have the starting +1 production, you also add more cards to the deck to allow for more rounds. (though I know lots of the corporation cards give ways to draw cards, so that will have some impact on reducing the number of turns.
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Sisada Ransibrahmanakul
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in my 4/5 players games (played around 10 times) we always in situation where cards ran out in very last generation (mostly on round 8/9) . We did make new draw pile from discard pile.

forget to mentioned that they all played in extended game.
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mfl134
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orjanalmen wrote:
mfl134 wrote:

Just to make sure, since many others have done this wrong, are you playing every round until everyone passes and not just doing 0/1/2 actions per generation?


You can't do no (0) actions without passing.


right, I mean Pass/1/2, as some misunderstand the rules, which is equivalent to 0/1/2.
 
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Jeff Noel
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mfl134 wrote:

I'm mostly curious how the games are lasting that long. When we played with 2 players, the game went 9 generations (Or 11 if we miscounted). But since the end conditions don't change by player count, I'd assume less rounds in games with more players.


It does, but maybe not quite as much as you're thinking. It is very common to need to reshuffle in a 5 player game. Without any additional card draw:

2 players for 11 generations: 2(10 + 4*(11-1)) = 100 cards
5 players for 7 generations: 5(10 + 4*(7-1)) = 170 cards
 
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Sebastian Stückl
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jeff0 wrote:
mfl134 wrote:

I'm mostly curious how the games are lasting that long. When we played with 2 players, the game went 9 generations (Or 11 if we miscounted). But since the end conditions don't change by player count, I'd assume less rounds in games with more players.


It does, but maybe not quite as much as you're thinking. It is very common to need to reshuffle in a 5 player game. Without any additional card draw:

2 players for 11 generations: 2(10 + 4*(11-1)) = 100 cards
5 players for 7 generations: 5(10 + 4*(7-1)) = 170 cards


To be fair, that means it's quite unlikely to happen with the corporate era cards (208 total, or 209 with the promo).
Without them, I think you play with 152 cards, so that a reshuffle could reasonably come up with 4 or 5 players, especially if you add some card draw actions and the players use strategies that don't heavily rely on terraforming, though I am not sure how well that works with only the non-corporate era cards.
I would assume it's possible though, while many jovian and science tags are missing, all animal cards and most microbe cards are still available to durdle around.
 
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mfl134
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jeff0 wrote:
mfl134 wrote:

I'm mostly curious how the games are lasting that long. When we played with 2 players, the game went 9 generations (Or 11 if we miscounted). But since the end conditions don't change by player count, I'd assume less rounds in games with more players.


It does, but maybe not quite as much as you're thinking. It is very common to need to reshuffle in a 5 player game. Without any additional card draw:

2 players for 11 generations: 2(10 + 4*(11-1)) = 100 cards
5 players for 7 generations: 5(10 + 4*(7-1)) = 170 cards


I guess i'm surprised the 5 players only cuts the game by 4 generations, but I suppose that makes sense.

Are these games without +1 to starting production and without the corporate cards?
 
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Jeff Noel
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I've had a 5 player (non-Corporate Era) game last only 5 generations, but I think 6-8 is probably the norm. The game accelerates from generation to generation (with the exception of 1->2) in terms of the amount of terraforming you can accomplish. In games with more generations (i.e. fewer players and/or Corporate Era), there is more time to be efficient.
 
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Dennis Ku
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mfl134 wrote:


Are these games without +1 to starting production and without the corporate cards?


I thought starting without starting production only happened when you used corporate cards.
 
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Jacob Fryxelius
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Hello all,

Official answer: If the deck runs out, you reshuffle thediscard pile to form a new deck and continue play.

This will be clarified in future prints.
/Jacob
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