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Subject: Just starting. Looking for map help rss

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Scourn1
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So I bought all 10 challenge decks. As I wait for them to arrive, I have been reading as much as I can and printing out rules.

One that has been talked about on here seems to be maps, as the rules themselves don't go into detail on it really.

Reading over and over, I really don't get moving in this game. Would a map help? How do you actually move? How do you know where to move?

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Wiedewiet
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Use a map instead of the Region Cards. Don't use Starter Movement. You know where to go by looking at your hand of resource cards. See a Faction in there? Move to their site to get them into play. See an Ally? Same thing.

See an Item? Then there's more options: Major Items can be played at more different sites than Greater Items. Hoard Items only at sites with a Dragon automatic attack. So pick a site nearby where your Item is playable and the automatic attack looks most doable, but also check your site path: if your opponent is playing wolves, spiders or dragon/drake hazards a site path with 3 wildernesses is a lot more dangerous!
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Wiedewiet
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SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Wiet wrote:
Use a map instead of the Region Cards. Don't use Starter Movement.


I agree with your first suggestion, but would qualify the second.

I completely agree. What I meant was that Starter Movement should really be the exception, and you should normally go for Region Movement.
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Wiedewiet
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I know I'm really tooting my own horn here, but I think this could really help you out: I compiled a version of the map especially for people who struggle with that question "Where do I go??"

MECCG Color Coded Sitemap
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Mark Riley
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Wiet - thanks so much for that map. There are a lot of maps on the net for this game but this one IMHO is way the best in terms of both graphics and functionality. I blew mine up to about 5 feet wide and it looks superb.
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Wiedewiet
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goatleaf wrote:
this one IMHO is way the best in terms of both graphics and functionality.

Thanks modest That's exactly what I was aiming for.

goatleaf wrote:
I blew mine up to about 5 feet wide and it looks superb.

That must look awesome!
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Scourn1
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I think if I had the cards I might understand this better.

1. So you only need site cards for attacks that happen? and it lists what can be played on you?

2. Why does nearest haven't listed matter?

For example


3. I can move here, I will get 4 attacks from the orcs, and my opponent can play any hazards that are forest and shadow hold. But they cant play hazards that are Dark holds right )even though carn dumb is a dark hold)?

4. According to your map, Carn Dum is next to Rivendell, via Rhudaur region is next to Angmar. So because the red boarders(regions) are next to each other I can move to Carn Dum from Rivendell?

5. I can only also move to 1 region a turn yes? And all my characters move there? Or can I split them up and move different ways?

6. Also what happens if im in Rivendell and I want to go to the Ettenmoors. Its in the same region, so do I just move there and resolve it?

7. On the flipside, what if im at Rivendell, and I really need to go to Dol guldur? How do I get there, and how many turns does it take?

Do I go Rivendell, Goblin-gate, gladden fields, then to dol guldur, so takes 3 turns?
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Wiedewiet
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scourn1 wrote:
I think if I had the cards I might understand this better.

1. So you only need site cards for attacks that happen? and it lists what can be played on you?

scourn1 wrote:
2. Why does nearest haven't listed matter?

You play a Site card to show where you are moving. Hazards are played on your moving companies (yes, you can have more than one, see below) keyed to *regions* in your Site Path + keyed to the destination *site*.

When using 'starter movement' you move from Haven to a Site, This Site needs to have your Haven of origin listed under 'nearest haven'. The next turn you move from the Site back to the nearest Haven. Your Site Path is listed on the Site card (when moving back to a Haven look at the Site of origin).

If you use Region Movement - as I recommend you normally do, it's much more liberating - your Site Path is made up out of the Regions you move through. You can move though a max of 4 regions, where the region of your site of origin and region of your destination site count as well. Here is where you would check the map for region symbols.

scourn1 wrote:
3. I can move here, I will get 4 attacks from the orcs, and my opponent can play any hazards that are forest and shadow hold. But they cant play hazards that are Dark holds right )even though carn dumb is a dark hold)?

The automatic attack is resolved in the Site phase, should you decide to enter the Site. However, first you resolve the Movement/Hazard phase to see if you even arrive at said site. In the M/H phase you have nothing to do with this orc attack.

Your opponent can play hazards keyed to regions traveled through, PLUS keyed to the destination site. So in your example you can expect hazards keyed to Wilderness, Shadow-land AND Dark-hold. Take another look at the Carn-Dum card by the way: there is no Shadow-hold symbol on there. You need to know how to distinguish region symbols from site symbols.

scourn1 wrote:
4. According to your map, Carn Dum is next to Rivendell, via Rhudaur region is next to Angmar. So because the red boarders(regions) are next to each other I can move to Carn Dum from Rivendell?

Correct.

scourn1 wrote:
5. I can only also move to 1 region a turn yes? And all my characters move there? Or can I split them up and move different ways?

A company can move a maximum of 4 regions per turn (counting starting region as well). You can split up into multiple companies in your Organization Phase. Since movement is the card drawing engine in this game, it's often a good idea to split into multiple companies so you can draw more cards and accomplish more each turn. This (of course) also has a drawback: smaller companies are more vulnerable.

scourn1 wrote:
6. Also what happens if im in Rivendell and I want to go to the Ettenmoors. Its in the same region, so do I just move there and resolve it?

Yes, and your Site Path would be 1 Wilderness (Rhudaur).

scourn1 wrote:
7. On the flipside, what if im at Rivendell, and I really need to go to Dol guldur? How do I get there, and how many turns does it take?

Do I go Rivendell, Goblin-gate, gladden fields, then to dol guldur, so takes 3 turns?

That would be a viable option. However, if you have no business in Gladden Fields, I'd opt for a safer destination Site, like Lorien. It takes only 1 turn to move from Rivendell to Lorien (max 4 regions, remember?). Then in the next turn you could move from Lorien to Dol Guldur.

If you have any more questions let me know!
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Scourn1
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Ok so I think I'm slowly getting it.

When I move for example from Rivendell(Rhudaur region) to Lorien (Wold and Foothills region)

1. Can they play hazards on me before I move? AKA Just forest hazards as there is only a forest Icon and Rivendell is a Haven.

2. When I move, is it region to region, stopping to let opponent play hazards on each region I enter?

3. Do they play hazards on me when I get to my destination region, calculating up all region symbols I went through?

For example: I start in Rhudaur (can they play hazards)I move to Holland Region(do I stop and they play? Do I have to pick a specific location in Holland to stop such as Ost-in-eshil?) OR do I count the regions, pick the location such as Lorien and just move there?
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Wiedewiet
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scourn1 wrote:
When I move for example from Rivendell(Rhudaur region) to Lorien (Wold and Foothills region)

1. Can they play hazards on me before I move? AKA Just forest hazards as there is only a forest Icon and Rivendell is a Haven.

What you call 'before I move' I would call the first leg of your journey. You're exiting Rivendell and are moving through Rhudaur. The site Rivendell itself is not considered part of your journey.

scourn1 wrote:
2. When I move, is it region to region, stopping to let opponent play hazards on each region I enter?

No, you state your whole Site Path + destination site, and then your opponent can play keyable hazards up to the hazard limit in any order. It might not seem very intuitive, but for example a hazard keyed to your destination site can be played, followed by a hazard keyed to the first region you move through. This makes it so the hazard player can apply some tactics to the order of his card play.

scourn1 wrote:
3. Do they play hazards on me when I get to my destination region, calculating up all region symbols I went through?

For example: I start in Rhudaur (can they play hazards)I move to Holland Region(do I stop and they play? Do I have to pick a specific location in Holland to stop such as Ost-in-eshil?) OR do I count the regions, pick the location such as Lorien and just move there?

I think I answered this under question 2.

EDIT: ninja'd
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Scourn1
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1. Site/Region symbols are not "used up" when hazards are played correct? Such as If I just move to 1 new region and it shows 1 forest (and lets say the site has 1 other symbol not a forest) my opponent could play as many forest hazards (up to my party limit) as they wanted?

2. Leys say I was in Dagorlad - at the Dead Marshes and I am moving to Gorgoroth - Barad-Dur. I set the Barad-Dur card in front of my party to show it.

Is the hazard symbols the following - ShadowLands for Dagorlad, Dark Domain for Udun, Dark Domain for Gorgoroth, then ALL site path symbols on the Barad-Dur site card? (So Wilderness, BorderLands, Free Domain, Wilderness, Shadowlands, Dark Domain)
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Wiedewiet
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scourn1 wrote:
1. Site/Region symbols are not "used up" when hazards are played correct? Such as If I just move to 1 new region and it shows 1 forest (and lets say the site has 1 other symbol not a forest) my opponent could play as many forest hazards (up to my party limit) as they wanted?

Correct.

scourn1 wrote:
2. Leys say I was in Dagorlad - at the Dead Marshes and I am moving to Gorgoroth - Barad-Dur. I set the Barad-Dur card in front of my party to show it.
Is the hazard symbols the following - ShadowLands for Dagorlad, Dark Domain for Udun, Dark Domain for Gorgoroth, then ALL site path symbols on the Barad-Dur site card? (So Wilderness, BorderLands, Free Domain, Wilderness, Shadowlands, Dark Domain)

No, it's one or the other. Either you use the symbols on the site card. This is when using starter movement. Or you use the symbols from the regions (region movement).
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Scourn1
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Ugh. This is why I quit the first time. I really cant wrap my head around this. when I think I get it, I don't. I'm a visual learner, so unless I can see it, hard for me to understand.

Let me try a easier one.

Lets say I'm in Rivendell. I want to go to Carn Dum

1. Starter movement - I place Carn Dum in front of me because it shows Rivendell is nearest so that is a legal move. My opponent can then look at Carn Dum and then play any hazards that are on the Carn Dum card. So Dark Domain, Wilderness, Shadowlands.

2. Up to 4 Region movement - I place it in front as a reference for attacks and whats playable but ignore the symbols. On the map, the Region (red outline/white outline depending on map) Rhudau) is adjacent to Angmar, the region I am moving to, which is where Carn Dum is located. I look at the map, and it shows a Wilderness for Rhudaur(because I always count the place I am in as a space), a Shadowlands for Angmar Region, and a Dark Domain for Carn Dum.

Please tell me I am right before my head explodes
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Wiedewiet
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scourn1 wrote:
Lets say I'm in Rivendell. I want to go to Carn Dum

1. Starter movement - I place Carn Dum in front of me because it shows Rivendell is nearest so that is a legal move. My opponent can then look at Carn Dum and then play any hazards that are on the Carn Dum card. So Dark Domain, Wilderness, Shadowlands.

Almost! That's not a Dark-domain on the card, it's a Dark-hold. Your site path is always made up out of the symbols of the regions traveled through plus the symbol for the destination site. I noticed earlier in this thread you seem to have some problems distinguishing site symbols from region symbols (granted, they are almost alike): region symbols are in a circle, site symbols are not. Also see the back of the small rules booklet for a list of the symbols.

scourn1 wrote:
2. Up to 4 Region movement - I place it in front as a reference for attacks and whats playable but ignore the symbols. On the map, the Region (red outline/white outline depending on map) Rhudau) is adjacent to Angmar, the region I am moving to, which is where Carn Dum is located. I look at the map, and it shows a Wilderness for Rhudaur(because I always count the place I am in as a space), a Shadowlands for Angmar Region, and a Dark Domain for Carn Dum.

Please tell me I am right before my head explodes

Well, almost right here as well. Same thing: that's not a Dark-domain, it's a Dark-hold.

Seems to me you're nearly there!
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Scourn1
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So besides the fail on my part of the hazard type, I now understand how it works! Whew, mind hurting but rewarding

Thank you a TON Wiet and Matthew for the help. I was worried since there's not many postings here no one would reply.
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Herve Duval
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Ian, welcome back to the game. I am sure that someone will always answer your questions here. There is still a very active community (at least in Europe). You can also check councilofelrond.org where most of our discussions take place.
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Carolyn Longinton
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very well explained.
i thought at first it was overly complicated, and it is. but after a few plays, you get the hang of it and it opens a whole strategy: what move is the best, strategically and tactically.
one might explain the Under-deeps move, another complexity of its own.
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Tucker Rumm
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Under-deeps movement is actually pretty easy.

Each site shows what sites you can move to and has a target number.
Pick where you want to move, then make a roll and add any modifiers you have to the roll.
If you meet or beat the target number, you move and have a M/H phase as normal. If you fail, you don't move, and you have a M/H phase as if you chose not to move (opponent can play hazards keyed to the site, etc.)
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Scourn1
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Got a game in tonight, first one. Decided to try the starter movement(basic movement)just to get the other mechanics down before we add in the map.

When I'm at a Haven and move to a location, I got that 100%

Question is, when I am at a location. Lets say Moria for example, my only option with basic movement is to go back to Lorien. Lorien doesn't have site symbols (besides haven), so is it a symboless move? Opponent could still play hazards, but they cant play creatures really? Is that the bad part of basic movement?
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Wiedewiet
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scourn1 wrote:
Question is, when I am at a location. Lets say Moria for example, my only option with basic movement is to go back to Lorien. Lorien doesn't have site symbols (besides haven), so is it a symboless move?

No, when moving back to a Haven with starter movement you use the site path on the site of origin. So in your case, moving from Moria to Lorien, you use the site path on the Moria card (two wildernesses) plus the Haven symbol from the Lorien card as the destination symbol.
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Carolyn Longinton
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Lorien has a region type. Hazards can be keyed to this type, even creature hazards.
There is only Haven site type, so cannot key hazard on site type.
Going to Lorien, a Haven, is safer. But you cannot do much there, only store a card, recruit a character, heal a wounded.
Starter move is sometimes better because of the listed region symbols you want to avoid, like double wilderness.
 
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Carocaro wrote:
Lorien has a region type. Hazards can be keyed to this type, even creature hazards.

You are complicating things. He is looking at the Lorien card, which does NOT have region symbols listed. Of course Lorien is in Wold & Foothills, which is a Wilderness, but he wants to use starter movement, so does not use the map. As per my earlier answer, he has to look at the site of origin's card to check the site path.

Carocaro wrote:
There is only Haven site type, so cannot key hazard on site type.

You can always key hazards to site type, it's just that there are no hazards keyable to the Haven type.
 
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