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Subject: What player count should I NOT play with? rss

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Josh Hagood
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So I think it's generally accepted that 6 is best. But, I think my group may have trouble getting 6 to commit to 5-9 hours to play/learn this game I just got, so I want to know what numbers I should avoid. What maps or rules get weird with certain numbers?

Stats on player count here suggest it's 4, 6, or nothing. I'm guessing 7+ is WAY too long? (I have the 1st expac) and 3 is weirdly balanced? Same with 5 maybe?

Thanks!
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Scott M.
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5 and 6 work Well sufficient varaitey for apmle diplomacy, odd man out has to make interesting choices if cought short on the diplomatic front.

3 gets weird having to draw two strategy cards.

4 is not enough diplomacy as the map is compressed leading to turtleing and or all out war. Incidentaly this is a fast game.

7-8, only if your down for punishment...
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Scott Lewis
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I always recommend against 7-8 players because for me, all the extra players do (and thus bigger map) is add more to the game time without adding more substance to the game itself.

I prefer it with 4 or 6 myself; I can play with 5 if I have the right group (and there are some variant maps that let a 5-player map actually work about as well as a 6-player map). I'm not as much a fan with 3 just because there is less interaction, and players are so far apart from each other.
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Joe Pilkus
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I do not recommend 3, 7, or 8 players.

I highly recommend 4-6 players
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Jonathan Challis
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I think 6 is best, but 7-8 is great.

I wouldn't play with less than 6. I love this game, but less than 6 I'd walk away and play something else.
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Josh Hagood
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Kelanen wrote:
I think 6 is best, but 7-8 is great.

I wouldn't play with less than 6. I love this game, but less than 6 I'd walk away and play something else.


I think we might play a 4/5 player game to teach the majority of the group to keep time down as much as possible for a learning experience. Then once everyone has played once, move on to a 6 player.
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possum man
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3 and 4 player games are excellent for learning how to play the game. You get more space and resources to counter the inevitable mistakes you make.

6 is clearly best. 5 is very good. 3 and 4 are both good if you get the right group dynamic; some of my most action packed games have been 3-player. (You effectively have to accept that you will get attacked, but it's not personal.)
I'd recommend against 7 or 8 players. The map is too large and the downtime is too long.
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Josh Hagood
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possumman wrote:
3 and 4 player games are excellent for learning how to play the game. You get more space and resources to counter the inevitable mistakes you make.

6 is clearly best. 5 is very good. 3 and 4 are both good if you get the right group dynamic; some of my most action packed games have been 3-player. (You effectively have to accept that you will get attacked, but it's not personal.)
I'd recommend against 7 or 8 players. The map is too large and the downtime is too long.


Thanks, that's was essentially what I was looking for... not what's best (it's 6, duh) but what's WORST and should be avoided.
 
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Jonathan Challis
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Vazzaroth wrote:

Thanks, that's was essentially what I was looking for... not what's best (it's 6, duh) but what's WORST and should be avoided.


Opinions vary - I'd say 3, 4 and 5 are all worst, and I would never play them.
 
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Nathan
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I highly recommend a more liberal approach in your time estimation. 5 to 9 hours for a learning game is not going to happen. 8 to 12 will be your starting range. Even 12+. When I teach a brand new group it is always 2 to 2.5 hours just for setup, rules overview and round 1 fully complete. Always.
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Santi Velasco
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4 player is great, 6 players is epic, haven't played with 5. 3 player, well, it's a little less interesting mainly due to the diplomacy stuff being more predictable.

That said, it's still TI3 which means it's awesome. I would play a 3-player TI3 game over 90% of the games in the Geek's top-100 anytime.
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Starkiller
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I would play with any number, I love this game.

However...
3 players doesn't work too well, because you can't go to war with someone without breaking a trade agreement, and votes tend to be all-or-nothing, not much negotiation.

4 players is better, but the trading is a bit linear...you just trade around TA every time someone goes to war. Politics is a bit less one-player dominated, but the person with Assembly SC can usually play it when they are sure to get the end result they wanted.

5 players works well on the trading and politics front, but the map RAW isn't great, and you only draw 5 out of 8 SC. It really is best to use a different map, and it works that way.

6 players is perfect. Enough people to trade with so there is variety, and voting requires convincing others to vote for the result you want. The map is the perfect size, and you have a couple SC out every round, collecting bonus counters, but not too many.

7 players, trading is the same as 5 and up....politics becomes harder getting your way. The big problem here is the map is bigger and unbalanced. A variant pre-made map can really help.

8 players is about the same as 7, except there is no SC collecting bonus counters. Some people love that, and some hate it.

Again, it's a great game at any number. I would play it anyway. However, 3 really is less than ideal. 6 is perfect.
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Sean Shaw
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I'd say, whatever you do...try not to play with one player.



I actually think 3 players is fine. 4 and 5 players also are good and make for a decent amount of time. More than 5 and you want to take a look and see how much time you actually have.

If you have the expansions, double or triple the time it will take to play the game.
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We played a three player the other week. It was an interesting game. Before we started we all unofficially agreed that we'll play it a bit 'cold-war', so as to avoid Player 1 decimating 2, and 3 reaping his/her undamaged rewards in the long-run.

It turned out to be one of the most unique games we've played. The ever present threat of mutual destruction for the benefit of the third player kept an extremely uneasy truce.
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Thomas Robb
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5 is ok (hard to get a map that doesn't really hinder one player)

6 is perfect !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for all aspects of the game

I will play with 7 and 8 because I love the game but it only adds to the length of playing time not depth of experience

I would never play with less than 5 - why bother?

just my two cents worth . . .

 
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David Damerell
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thomasrobb wrote:

5 is ok (hard to get a map that doesn't really hinder one player)


It's easy. I try not to post this in every thread but:

With 5 players, use the layout on page 86 of the rulebook (just the shape
of the map, not the predetermined hex contents). However, ignore all the
special rules about wormholes. Hexes 1/2/3/4/5 are just considered
connected as if they were adjacent to each other normally. The pool of
systems comprises 3 Special, 6 Empty, and 16 Regular systems.

With 7 players, use the 8-player map, removing a start position and
the same pattern of hexes around it as for the 5-player map. 7 Special, 10
Empty, and 30 Regular systems.
 
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Scott Randolph
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damerell wrote:
thomasrobb wrote:

5 is ok (hard to get a map that doesn't really hinder one player)


It's easy. I try not to post this in every thread but:

With 5 players, use the layout on page 86 of the rulebook (just the shape
of the map, not the predetermined hex contents). However, ignore all the
special rules about wormholes. Hexes 1/2/3/4/5 are just considered
connected as if they were adjacent to each other normally. The pool of
systems comprises 3 Special, 6 Empty, and 16 Regular systems.

With 7 players, use the 8-player map, removing a start position and
the same pattern of hexes around it as for the 5-player map. 7 Special, 10
Empty, and 30 Regular systems.


5-Player and 7-Player are my favorite; 8-player is fantastic as well, there is tons of player interaction in 8-player among all players due to a built-in game design called "Wormholes" (you may have heard of them), make your own pre-set map and put wormholes in strategic places to maximize interaction (hint - that means conflict) between players on the other side of the map.

Again, MAKE your own pre-set maps, they will be better than the ones in the rulebook, use the ones in the rulebook as a guide.

Our group is about to play our 57th game of TI3, we play 5, 6, 7, 8 player games ALL the time, they are ALL good player numbers.

7-player / 8-player games DO NOT take 12 hours, that is a myth. We play 7-8 player games 5-7 times a year, TO 14 VP's / TLW, year after year after year, we start at 11am (arrival time actually), and we're done by 8-9pm.
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Shawn Devlin
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I have found 4 players is a very different game. It does not have as much of an epic feel as 5+. It is a quick game though. I suspect the same could be said of a 3 player game.

For me, the higher player counts deliver more of what I want from the game, which are treaties, diplomacy, alliances, and the breaking thereof.
 
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Lance Harrop
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You guys need to get together the pieces for a ten player game (share the buying of a second set of expansion 2 with you other owners) and really learn how this game is meant to be played.

whistle

And yes, I have actually done it a few times.
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Starkiller
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Leifr wrote:
You guys need to get together the pieces for a ten player game (share the buying of a second set of expansion 2 with you other owners) and really learn how this game is meant to be played.

whistle

And yes, I have actually done it a few times.

But Leifr....
How can us mere TI3 mortals hope to come close to your greatness?modest

 
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Salman Qaisar
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damerell wrote:
thomasrobb wrote:

5 is ok (hard to get a map that doesn't really hinder one player)


It's easy. I try not to post this in every thread but:

With 5 players, use the layout on page 86 of the rulebook (just the shape
of the map, not the predetermined hex contents). However, ignore all the
special rules about wormholes. Hexes 1/2/3/4/5 are just considered
connected as if they were adjacent to each other normally. The pool of
systems comprises 3 Special, 6 Empty, and 16 Regular systems.


Hi i cant find this in the manual (of core game).
5-player setup is on page 32, but no mention of predetermined hexes nor wormholes.
What am i missing?
Regards, Sal
 
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Starkiller
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Zalman wrote:
damerell wrote:
thomasrobb wrote:

5 is ok (hard to get a map that doesn't really hinder one player)


It's easy. I try not to post this in every thread but:

With 5 players, use the layout on page 86 of the rulebook (just the shape
of the map, not the predetermined hex contents). However, ignore all the
special rules about wormholes. Hexes 1/2/3/4/5 are just considered
connected as if they were adjacent to each other normally. The pool of
systems comprises 3 Special, 6 Empty, and 16 Regular systems.


Hi i cant find this in the manual (of core game).
5-player setup is on page 32, but no mention of predetermined hexes nor wormholes.
What am i missing?
Regards, Sal

This was slightly misleading.
FFG published a couple page additional rules/optional rules/preset maps rule sheet. (I believe it comes with Shattered Empire?) You can download it from FFG TI3 website, or just google TI3 5 player preset maps, it will come up. I'm not sure where damerell got page 86 from, but I'm assuming it is a fan complied rule/errata/FAQ book.

Basically, you take a slice of the galaxy out, but pretend the empty space does not exist--systems on ether side of the space are still adjacent. The official map has a lot of complicated rules about specific systems placed on either side of the missing slice, so that you can just follow the wormholes, and it will mimic the systems being adjacent.

Or, you can just put a piece of paper under the missing slice and draw arrows showing how they connect. Much easier.
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Salman Qaisar
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akinfantryman wrote:
Zalman wrote:
damerell wrote:
thomasrobb wrote:

5 is ok (hard to get a map that doesn't really hinder one player)


It's easy. I try not to post this in every thread but:

With 5 players, use the layout on page 86 of the rulebook (just the shape
of the map, not the predetermined hex contents). However, ignore all the
special rules about wormholes. Hexes 1/2/3/4/5 are just considered
connected as if they were adjacent to each other normally. The pool of
systems comprises 3 Special, 6 Empty, and 16 Regular systems.


Hi i cant find this in the manual (of core game).
5-player setup is on page 32, but no mention of predetermined hexes nor wormholes.
What am i missing?
Regards, Sal

This was slightly misleading.
FFG published a couple page additional rules/optional rules/preset maps rule sheet. (I believe it comes with Shattered Empire?) You can download it from FFG TI3 website, or just google TI3 5 player preset maps, it will come up. I'm not sure where damerell got page 86 from, but I'm assuming it is a fan complied rule/errata/FAQ book.

Basically, you take a slice of the galaxy out, but pretend the empty space does not exist--systems on ether side of the space are still adjacent. The official map has a lot of complicated rules about specific systems placed on either side of the missing slice, so that you can just follow the wormholes, and it will mimic the systems being adjacent.

Or, you can just put a piece of paper under the missing slice and draw arrows showing how they connect. Much easier.


Thanks man!
Makes a lotta sense now
Sal
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Jonathan Challis
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SFRR wrote:
[q="damerell"][q="thomasrobb"]
7-player / 8-player games DO NOT take 12 hours, that is a myth. We play 7-8 player games 5-7 times a year, TO 14 VP's / TLW, year after year after year, we start at 11am (arrival time actually), and we're done by 8-9pm.


That depends on the group 6-8 player games take us 12-16hrs on average. Without people leaving the table, or being distracted, etc.

And we're good with that....
 
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Thomas Robb
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5 is ok
6 is PERFECT!

7 and 8 if you are in camp all weekend and want to play an epic game - make sure you have both expansions (to help increase the map size and add lots of modular mechanics that you can choose from to enhance the experience)

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