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Subject: Rules questions. Many questions rss

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Denis Cobrousev
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I. Henry VII and his wives

1. Pregnancy roll result is 3: "As soon as England passes (assuming Henry is still alive, and not under siege) advance Marital Status Marker". And what if Henry is captured or under siege? MSM will be advanced when England passes again?

II. Protestant power

2. How many cards are dealt to Protestants before Schmalkaldic League has been played? 4 as they control 0 (less than 4) electorates?

3. When determining how many cards to deal to Protestants, must they count controlled electorates in unrest too?
I think no, but it is written nowhere.

4. May Protestants enter any alliances before Schmalkaldic League has been played?

III. Debates and debaters

5. What to do if 1st round ends with a tie and Protestants have only 1 debater in this language zone?

6. Do committed debaters use their bonuses in debates?

7. "Once all spaces in the chosen language zone are flipped to the winning denomination, additional hits are then used to flip spaces in any other language zone." - "any" means other 4 zones only? Or space out of language zones too?

8. If a space was target for unsuccessful (Counter) Reformation attempt, may it be converted as result of a debate same impulse?

9. Campeggio's bonus. If he lost 1st round of a debate and roll result is 5 or 6 (result is ignored), what's then? 2nd round?
9a. Does the bonus allow him to avoid disgrace?

10. If Zwingli is burnt, what to do with "Zwingli Dons Armor" card?

11. Tetzel's bonus is 1 CP for each Counter Reformation attempt or 1 CP for whole Burn books action?

12. Mary I rules England. England plays 3+ CP card and Papacy use it. Papacy must initiate a Theological Debate. But what if Protestants have no English-speaking debaters?

IV. Other religious actions

13. England publishes a treatise. May Protestant player activate Carlstadt's or Calvin's bonus (and force English player to try to convert French or German spaces)?

14. May Jesuit Universities be found in spaces in unrest?

15. Counter Reformation Procedure, step 5. "this Counter Reformation attempt has succeeded without a Protestant challenge. skip the rest of the steps in this procedure." I think this is error, step 9 shouldn't be skipped.

V. Naval movement

16. Step 4. "All stacks that successfully intercept are combined into a single stack (and will fight as a combined force in the naval combat in Step 7 below)." - only each with other? Or with this power's stack presets the in target sea zone before movement started too?

17. Step 5. "Enemy naval units in sea zones (not ports) may try to avoid battle if both of these conditions are met (these conditions represent a sea zone entered by the active power in Step 2 in which no intercept occurred in Step 4):" - no units may avoid battle, even units of other (than intercepted) powers?

18. Avoiding battle. "Adjacent ports must be controlled by the power avoiding battle" - control is only restriction? No restriction about absence of enemy troops there (if active power attacks both the sea zone and the port)?

19. If active player face several enemies in target sea zone, must (s)he resolve this combats without break? Or (s)he may resolve one of them, then resolve combat in other sea zone or port, and then resolve another combat in first sea zone?

VI. Naval combat

20. Playing Response cards. If Ottomans want to play Janissaries, what to do:
a) Ask other players if someone wants to play Professional Rowers OR
b) Play Janissaries and after that ask about Professional Rowers?

21. Retreat. Same question than 18.

22. Declaration of war during actions phase may cause naval combat without attacker and defender, in case of tie both sides must retreat. And what to do with odd hits?

23. Ottoman stack consists of both squadrons and corsairs fights a battle. Both sides are eliminated. One side retains 1 unit. If this side is Ottomans, what kind of unit they retains - squadron? corsair? any for player's choose?

VII. Piracy

24. May Ottomans initiate piracy against their ally? If yes, what about loaned squadrons?
Will ottoman squadrons loaned to target fight against pirates?
Will target's squadrons loaned to Ottomans do it?

VIII. Building units

25. "New units must be constructed in friendly home spaces" - friendly means controlled by this power only? Or by allies too?

IX. Line of communication

26. May LOC be traced from a space controlled by not its home power?
Example: Hapsburgs and Papacy are allies, Papacy controls Naples. May Hapsburgs trace LOC from Naples?

27. Are major ally's minor allies considered as allies?
Example: Hapsburgs and Papacy are allies, Venice is Papal ally. May Hapsburgs trace LOC from Venetian home spaces (if they are under friendly control)?

28. "Siege Artillery" card: "Only playable in assaults with a line of communication of 4 or fewer land spaces to a fortified major power home space." Does it mean 2 additional conditions:
a) LOC length and
b) LOC to THIS power space?

X. Adding new army leaders

29. "Henry II" card. Where to place Henry if Francis is captured and Paris is under enemy control?

30. Same question about Henry VIII and Dudley.

XI. Other

31. Sack of Rome. Does it need only 1 stack containing more mercenaries than Papal regulars in Rome? If there are 2 or more such stacks, is the sack possible?
 
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Philip Thomas
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Hmm. I can't answer all of these. Answers I am sure of are given in normal type. Answers I am unsure of are given in Italics
1)If Henry is Captured, Dead, or in Siege when England Passes after rolling a 3 on the Pregnancy chart, the opportunity to advance the Matriominal Status Marker is simply lost, and cannot be regained
2) Most definitely four.
3) Electorates in Unrest do not count for determination of 'control'

4) Yes But this has no effect, unless Henry VIII has somehow married Anne of Cleves before the end of Turn 4...
5)That debater takes part in the second round- he is part of the pool of comitted debaters
6) Yes
7) Any spaces may be flipped, if they meet the adjacency rules.
8) Yes
9) Campeggio's bonus ends the debate, there is no 2nd round. It can save him from disgrace.
10) If Zwingli has been burnt, Zwingli Dons Armour cannot be played as an event, only for Cps
11) 1 Cp for a Counter-Reformation attempt, after which he is comitted and cannot earn another Cp that turn.
12) I don't know, but this is an unlikely scenario (it involves burning Wishart and Knox at least, plus 4 more debaters if the English player got as far as Anne Boleyn, which he will do in most games)
13) England can only publish treatises in English speaking spaces (see the player aid)
14) No, Jesuit universities can't be built in spaces in unrest.
15) Indeed, step 9 is not skipped.
16) They all combine in step 6, but they are seperated in step 4 to make clear the power can't avoid battle in step 5
17) Don't Know
18) Don't Know
19) Don't Know
20) Don't Know
21) Don't Know
22) Don't Know
23) Corsair
24) Don't Know
25) This power only, except that you can contruct regulars belonging to a minor power ally in that minor power's home spaces with this action.
26) Yes
27) Yes.
28) The fortified major power home space must be friendly controlled (of course, because otherwise there would be no LOC) It need not a home space of the besieging power.
29 and 30) Follow the procedure used in Ransom (i.e, place the new leader in a home key you control. If you control no home keys, I'm not sure what happens
31) Yes, the Sack goes ahead. The player playing the card chooses which stack participates in the Sack

No doubt Ed or someone will be along soon to clear things up, but there is a start.




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David Brown
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It's a long time sinced a played this game and we never had any issues with the rules - infact i would say it is one of the best rule books I have every read.

My instinct tells me that this game is a major leap in complexity for you and as such you are struggling with the length of the rule book. Everything you question is covered in the rule book - You need to sit down and play the game (with others) going through everything at first slowly and step by step for the first few turns - you should find that it starts to fall into place.

It is a game that it dealing with complex issues but trust me the rule book is fantastic - everything comes together and makes sense

 
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Philip Thomas
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David, with respect, not everything here is covered in the rulebook. I had the rulebook as I was attempting to answer the questions.

Also, even for those answers that are in the rulebook, its not general BGG custom to say to newbies who ask rules questions "Go read the rulebook"...meeple
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Andy Daglish
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but its to be recommended.
 
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Denis Cobrousev
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Philip Thomas wrote:
13) England can only publish treatises in English speaking spaces (see the player aid)

But you can target spaces not from target language zones only. Usually it has no sense but it is allowed.

Philip Thomas wrote:
4) Yes But this has no effect, unless Henry VIII has somehow married Anne of Cleves before the end of Turn 4...

What is the relation between Protestants' alliances and Anne of Cleves?

thirts wrote:
trust me the rule book is fantastic - everything comes together and makes sense

Trust me, I read the rule book carefully and many times. And translated considerable part of it into Russian.

thirts wrote:
It's a long time sinced a played this game and we never had any issues with the rules
You need to sit down and play the game (with others) going through everything at first slowly and step by step for the first few turns

That is the difference between us. You consult with the rules in situations you face in a game, I consider (try to at least) all possible situations including uncommon and unusual.
 
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Philip Thomas
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The Protestant player cannot force the English player to target non-English-speaking spaces.

p.37 "If English and Protestant powers are allied when marriage occurs, each of these powers draws a card from the deck after the Pregnancy chart roll"

 
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David Brown
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Quote:
That is the difference between us. You consult with the rules in situations you face in a game, I consider (try to at least) all possible situations including uncommon and unusual.


I read the rules, set the game out and go through it solo until I think I grasp it. If I was to try and think of every possibly premutation before I played the game, I suspect the game would never get beyond the shelf. Why spend time trying to answer questions that may never be asked?

Trust me 99.9% is in this rule book. It it was only the odd question I would have found the rule reference for it. But I wasn't going to attempt to re-write the rule book for you.

Good luck with the game, I hope you have players lined up who will want to play it with you as it is worth the effort

 
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Denis Cobrousev
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Philip Thomas wrote:
p.37 "If English and Protestant powers are allied when marriage occurs, each of these powers draws a card from the deck after the Pregnancy chart roll"

Oh, yes, you are right. But I meant another thing: An alliance in a case of SL will be played this turn in action phase.
 
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Eric Landes
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Denis Cobrousev wrote:

What is the relation between Protestants' alliances and Anne of Cleves?


Anne of Cleves' brother-in-law was John Frederick (see card #78 - Frederick the Wise), sometimes referred to as the "Champion of the Reformation", if I remember the relationship correctly.

She and Henry were 7th cousins, twice removed. If you care
 
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Greg Forster
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Basilius wrote:
Denis Cobrousev wrote:

What is the relation between Protestants' alliances and Anne of Cleves?


Anne of Cleves' brother-in-law was John Frederick (see card #78 - Frederick the Wise), sometimes referred to as the "Champion of the Reformation", if I remember the relationship correctly.

She and Henry were 7th cousins, twice removed. If you care


I think what he means is, how would a Protestant/English alliance affect the game when Henry marries Anne?

The answer is that if England and the Protestants are allied when Henry marries Anne, both powers draw a card. Flip Anne over; it says so on her back side. (Lord knows Henry didn't find much to look at on her front side.)
 
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Greg Forster
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I can plug a few of the holes here:

18 & 21) Yes, you may move naval units into your ports even if enemy land units are present, as long as you still control the space.

20) In all combats, the attacker announces any cards he wants to play (response cards, combat cards, or Janissaries), then the defender announces any cards he wants to play, then the combat is resolved. If somebody else wants to play a response card, he can speak up and play it whenever he wants, but you don't have to stop and ask. (Of course you are allowed to stop and ask if you like.)
 
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Denis Cobrousev
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Greg Forster wrote:

18 & 21) Yes, you may move naval units into your ports even if enemy land units are present, as long as you still control the space.

And will they participate battle in there?
 
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Philip Thomas
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Quote:

18 & 21) Yes, you may move naval units into your ports even if enemy land units are present, as long as you still control the space.


And will they participate battle in there?


Not sure what you mean. There will be no battle unless there are enemy naval units in the port, which there can only be immediately after an enemy naval move into the port, as they retreat out again after the battle. In the situatins you describe in 18 & 21, there has been no such move, because the enemy has made a naval move into a sea zone (in order to cause the avoid battle roll (18) or retreat (21)). So there will be no battle immediately, though of course there will be if enemy ships enter the port later and your ships are still there.
 
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Denis Cobrousev
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I mean simultaneous attack on port and adjacent sea zone.
Example: Hapsburgs have squadrons in Messina and Tyrrhenian Sea, Ottomans have ones in Ionian Sea and Barbary Coast. Ottomans attack Messina from Ionian Sea and SAME ACTION Tyrrhenian Sea from Barbary Coast. Combat in Tyrrhenian Sea has been resolved first, Hapsburgs have lost. May Hapsburg squadrons retreat to Messina?
 
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Philip Thomas
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Yes, they can retreat to Messina and will fight there.
 
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Greg Forster
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I agree. The rules specifically say that if you avoid battle or retreat into a sea zone, it must be free of enemy units. But they do not say the same thing about avoiding battle or retreating into a port. So clearly you can avoid battle or retreat "into" another battle.
 
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Denis Cobrousev
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But it's illogical! Perhaps, the author has simply overlooked an opportunity of such situation and consequently has not forbidden it?
 
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Ed Beach
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I have to agree with Denis on this one. Like many of Denis's questions, it is a very rare case. It only arises if:

a) A power is simultaneously attacking a sea zone and a two-zone port connected to that same zone, AND

b) The attacking power decides to resolve the sea zone attack before the port attack.

I'm pretty sure it has never come up in any of the games I've played.

As far as sea zones go, the rules are set up so you are prohibited from retreating/avoiding battle to a zone where another combat is about to occur. The same should apply to ports. I'll make a note of it for the next time I update errata.
 
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Greg Forster
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Congratulations, Denis - you prompted an erratum! Welcome to the club! We have these cool jackets that say "Born to Nitpick," and a secret handshake and everything. I'll see you at the next meeting.
 
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Denis Cobrousev wrote:
X. Adding new army leaders

29. "Henry II" card. Where to place Henry if Francis is captured and Paris is under enemy control?

30. Same question about Henry VIII and Dudley.

Philip Thomas wrote:
Answers I am unsure of are given in Italics

29 and 30) Follow the procedure used in Ransom (i.e, place the new leader in a home key you control. If you control no home keys, I'm not sure what happens


Since Ed didn't speak out against this, is this what people are assuming to be the correct interpretation of Denis' question?
 
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Rob Davidson
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Mine would be "If the situation is that bad, why not sue". In any case, using the ransom methodology seems to make sense; and if you control no home keys...refer back to the first quote above...
 
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tabpub wrote:
Mine would be "If the situation is that bad, why not sue".


You can't sue for peace in the middle of the turn, which is when the Henry II mandatory event would be resolved.
 
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Rob Davidson
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turbothy wrote:
tabpub wrote:
Mine would be "If the situation is that bad, why not sue".


You can't sue for peace in the middle of the turn, which is when the Henry II mandatory event would be resolved.


You really took that statement and ran; I guess I should have been more complete...let's see...

A. Know the suing process; statement based on:

B. Losing both your capital and King usually doesn't happen at once.
C. Henry II usually gets played immediately to neuter the French HC play for VP.

In any case, it's not the point of the discussion is it?
As arriving army leader was modified for VQ to 'any friendly Home space'; just like Maurice here in HIS, who chooses any Friendly Electorate I would go with that interpretation in the case of the capital being occupied....and YES, in the extreme case that ALL the home keys are gone, the leader would 'hide' on the turn track until there was a Home Key available at the start of a turn to be placed in.
 
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