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Leaving Earth» Forums » Variants

Subject: Geostationary Orbit rss

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Joe Fatula
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How about a location to represent geostationary orbit (GEO)?

It would have two maneuvers related to it:
- Earth Orbit <-> GEO for a difficulty of 2
- GEO <-> Lunar Orbit for a difficulty of 2

There would be a mission to put up the first geostationary satellite, as well as missions to launch private satellites for pay.
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O.Shane Balloun
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Yes!
 
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Barry Miller
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Two "Yes!"'s

 
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Gary Court
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A difficulty of 2 for GEO seem rather high compared to the other maneuvers in the area.
 
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Joe Fatula
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garycourt wrote:
A difficulty of 2 for GEO seem rather high compared to the other maneuvers in the area.

It is rather high, but GEO is rather hard to get to. Here's a delta-v map of the Earth/Moon/Mars area from Wikipedia:


Now that I'm looking at that map a bit more, I wonder if there should be a 4-difficulty maneuver from Lunar Orbit to Mars...
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Will H.
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How about L[i] Lagrange points?
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O.Shane Balloun
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gar0u wrote:
How about L[i] Lagrange points?


That was my first thought, too.
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David Hadden
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GEO: Definitely yes. As I recall we started making practical use of GEO in the mid 60's, so it fits even the base game.

Lagrange Points: Which object pair L1 are you suggesting?
 
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Josh Zscheile
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Absolutely yes!
 
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Joe Fatula
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I like the idea of Lagrange points, but I'm not sure which of them would be the most useful. Any suggestions?
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David Hadden
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Based on nothing more than a trip to Wikipedia it sounds like a mission to survey the Sun from Sun - Earth L1 might fit within the game's structure.
 
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Rakaydos Vashini
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Also note that any lagrange point would have long (9+) but really easy maneuvers to gt to any other lagrange point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Transport_Netwo...
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Gary Court
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buffalohat wrote:
I like the idea of Lagrange points, but I'm not sure which of them would be the most useful. Any suggestions?


In 1978, the ISEE-3 probe was the first to go to L1 point where it studied solar radiation for 4 years.

If the next expansions is adding any long-term research/goals, then it might be worth adding this point.

Afterwards in 1982, it was reassigned (ICE) to study a nearby passing comet (where it flew through the tail of it in 1985), then scanned Halley's Comet in 1986. In 1991 it went back to monitoring solar activity. (It was shutdown in 1997, but later flew nearby Earth in 2014.)

I feel like comets would be an interesting addition to the next expansion. I would imagine it as an event that occurs at certain years, and your space craft has to be at a certain point (a point that you can't just sit at, like inner/outer transfer) on that year in order to study it. Every player who studies it that year gets the same number of points. This would simulate the "Haley's Armada" that took place in 1986.
 
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Joe Fatula
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Rakaydos wrote:
Also note that any lagrange point would have long (9+) but really easy maneuvers to gt to any other lagrange point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplanetary_Transport_Netwo...

I just don't have a good handle on how that sort of maneuvering works. If anyone here has a good understanding of the ITN and wants to explain it to me, I'm all ears.
 
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Samuel Argento
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buffalohat wrote:
How about a location to represent geostationary orbit (GEO)?

It would have two maneuvers related to it:
- Earth Orbit <-> GEO for a difficulty of 2
- GEO <-> Lunar Orbit for a difficulty of 2

There would be a mission to put up the first geostationary satellite, as well as missions to launch private satellites for pay.


It would also be interesting to add other orbits (and add more missions)

PolarOrbit
Molniya Orbit
Sun Synchronous Orbit

Etc...

To facilitate the work to represent, have a table and counters for the card-board would be sufficient

Edit: Hohmann transfer orbit it would also be very interesting!

 
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Will H.
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Been thinking. Do all these difficult maneuvers belong in Leaving Earth, or should they just be captured in the difficulty number of the maneuver?

Maybe there should be additional location cards on the map, one for GEO, one for HEO, one for polar orbit, etc.?
 
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Joe Fatula
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gar0u wrote:
Been thinking. Do all these difficult maneuvers belong in Leaving Earth, or should they just be captured in the difficulty number of the maneuver?

Maybe there should be additional location cards on the map, one for GEO, one for HEO, one for polar orbit, etc.?

If we add any of these orbits, additional location cards is exactly how they'd work.

"Locations" in Leaving Earth aren't really places, but trajectories. One spacecraft on a Suborbital Flight trajectory and another on an Earth Orbit trajectory are actually at the same point for a moment. The difference is that the suborbital spacecraft doesn't have the momentum needed to stay there so it falls back down, while the orbital craft is traveling so fast sideways that it falls all the way around the Earth.

Anyhow, to support a trajectory like GEO in Leaving Earth terms, you need two things:
- a location card to represent that trajectory, and
- maneuvers to and from that location.
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Mike Hoyt
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What about a Space Elevator? Does that fit within the time frame of the game? I mean I know we don't have one, but was it even proposed early enough to possibly be included?
 
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Joe Fatula
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blockhead wrote:
What about a Space Elevator? Does that fit within the time frame of the game? I mean I know we don't have one, but was it even proposed early enough to possibly be included?

It was definitely proposed early enough. I've been working on a space elevator concept for the game, but it's been tough finding a good balance point.

Basically, the tech and actual construction need to be very expensive, but not so expensive that it never gets built. This is where joint ventures could come in handy, but there's still plenty of balance work to be done.
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Casey Davis
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Fancy orbits like geostationary, molniya, Lagrange points, etc. are pretty neat from a physics, perspective, but would they actually *do* anything in-game? If the only reason to go to new location card "X" is to get points from new mission card "go to X," then it doesn't really seem worth including in the game. Could there be some extra benefit of having a satellite in the special orbit? Perhaps some extra money each turn (renting out communication bandwidth or selling weather info, for instance), or discounts on research to represent boosts to science?
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Joe Fatula
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AbacusWizard wrote:
Fancy orbits like geostationary, molniya, Lagrange points, etc. are pretty neat from a physics, perspective, but would they actually *do* anything in-game? If the only reason to go to new location card "X" is to get points from new mission card "go to X," then it doesn't really seem worth including in the game. Could there be some extra benefit of having a satellite in the special orbit? Perhaps some extra money each turn (renting out communication bandwidth or selling weather info, for instance), or discounts on research to represent boosts to science?

That's pretty much the direction I'm looking to take GEO in. At some point in the future I'd like to make an expansion dealing with commercial uses of space: asteroid mining, satellite launches, etc. That's where GEO and other such orbits would come in.
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Casey Davis
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Sounds good; I'm all in favor of more neat stuff to do in space--both in games and in real life!
 
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