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Subject: Multiple attacks ? rss

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Alain MOYA
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If a character has enough gems, can he attack several times in a round ? The rules are unclear about that.
 
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Rockatansky Ash
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Yes you can.
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Budala Budala
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Yes !!
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Salvador Bernadó
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But remember that you can't put more gems on the attack space than the exertion number.
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Mad Halfling
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TheGreatGonzo wrote:
If a character has enough gems, can he attack several times in a round ? The rules are unclear about that.


Just in case you find any confusing/conflicting information - Barry Douublet mentioned in his video that in earlier versions of the rules you used to be able to only attack once, but now you can attack as many times as you can pay for - both in gems and limited by your exertion level on the attacking skill.
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Ric Wagner
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I do not doubt, that there is a rules change in the creation process from single to multiple attacks.

Game wise multiple attacks do not make sense in my point of view, since there would be an imbalance of making another attack for one crystal (and add the weapom dice again) to add an additional dice to the attack for a crystal. Or is it meant that weapons can add their dice only once per turn?

We tryed the first scenarios with the single attack mode, and it worked just fine.
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Stephan Beal
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Relborn wrote:
Game wise multiple attacks do not make sense in my point of view, since there would be an imbalance of making another attack for one crystal (and add the weapom dice again) to add an additional dice to the attack for a crystal. Or is it meant that weapons can add their dice only once per turn?


Weapon dice can be applied to each attack. One major advantage to using multiple gems at once, instead of splitting them into multiple attacks, is that a character who has weak dice can use more of them to penetrate armor of a stronger foe. But yes, for the general case (against weak opponents), it's more efficient to make multiple attacks at 1 gem each. i don't have a problem with this slight "imbalance" - it suits the cinematic level of combat, IMO.

Think of it this way: if Conan wielding a sword (as opposed to his battle-axe and Cleave ability) can only kill a single minion on each of his turns, then he pretty much sucks. On my gaming table right this moment he needs to rush in and kill 4 archers with his 5 Stamina. If he were only able to attack once, he'd kill 1 archer and they would staple him to the wall on their next turn. That wouldn't be much fun.
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volkan kucukemre
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sgbeal wrote:

Weapon dice can be applied to each attack. One major advantage to using multiple gems at once, instead of splitting them into multiple attacks, is that a character who has weak dice can use more of them to penetrate armor of a stronger foe. But yes, for the general case (against weak opponents), it's more efficient to make multiple attacks at 1 gem each. i don't have a problem with this slight "imbalance" - it suits the cinematic level of combat, IMO.

Think of it this way: if Conan wielding a sword (as opposed to his battle-axe and Cleave ability) can only kill a single minion on each of his turns, then he pretty much sucks. On my gaming table right this moment he needs to rush in and kill 4 archers with his 5 Stamina. If he were only able to attack once, he'd kill 1 archer and they would staple him to the wall on their next turn. That wouldn't be much fun.


Conan the general has reroll in his attack action.
if he assigns multiple dice for attack, Does he get only one reroll or a reroll for each dice?
 
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Stephan Beal
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volkan wrote:
Conan the general has reroll in his attack action.
if he assigns multiple dice for attack, Does he get only one reroll or a reroll for each dice?


Excellent question (which, AFAIK, has not yet been asked in these forums). i don't know. Hopefully Pallantides or BadKam cam clarify that for us.

My suspicion is that he gets 1 per gem, but i am speculating.

Edit: i have uplifted Vokan's question into its own thread (#1671958), as i feel it's important and won't get noticed in this thread. EDIT2: Pallantides concurs in that thread that "yes", the reroll is icon is applied to each die provided by each gem.
 
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Mad Halfling
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sgbeal wrote:
Relborn wrote:
Game wise multiple attacks do not make sense in my point of view, since there would be an imbalance of making another attack for one crystal (and add the weapom dice again) to add an additional dice to the attack for a crystal. Or is it meant that weapons can add their dice only once per turn?


Weapon dice can be applied to each attack. One major advantage to using multiple gems at once, instead of splitting them into multiple attacks, is that a character who has weak dice can use more of them to penetrate armor of a stronger foe. But yes, for the general case (against weak opponents), it's more efficient to make multiple attacks at 1 gem each. i don't have a problem with this slight "imbalance" - it suits the cinematic level of combat, IMO.

Think of it this way: if Conan wielding a sword (as opposed to his battle-axe and Cleave ability) can only kill a single minion on each of his turns, then he pretty much sucks. On my gaming table right this moment he needs to rush in and kill 4 archers with his 5 Stamina. If he were only able to attack once, he'd kill 1 archer and they would staple him to the wall on their next turn. That wouldn't be much fun.


And with a bigger creature, like the snake in the picts scenario, which has 8 health and 3 armour this can make a big difference in the defence dice the Overlord can/wishes to spend gems on. If you hit 2 5-point hits, it's only 2-4 gems needed (depeding on how lucky you feel) to defend them all, whereas if you do one big 10 point hit, that's probably 5-7 gems needed to defend them all. And if, like me, you hit for 14 (with 1 current damage) then it's snake-sashimi and the Overlord has to spend a lot to try to keep it alive.

Relborn wrote:
Game wise multiple attacks do not make sense in my point of view, since there would be an imbalance of making another attack for one crystal (and add the weapom dice again) to add an additional dice to the attack for a crystal. Or is it meant that weapons can add their dice only once per turn?


On the multiple attacks - think back to the films where Conan cuts a swathe through a horde of minions.
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Izzy Marsh
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volkan wrote:
Weapon dice can be applied to each attack.


The rules imply weapon dice are applied to EACH GEM assigned to each attack. So 3 gems put into ONE ATTACK grants 3x Attack Dice and appicable re-rolls PLUS 3x weapon dice.

To quote the rulebook - "Then, for each gem assigned, the hero rolls one die of the type indicated on their Melee Attack space, plus the dice indicated on the chosen card".

... this seems counterintuitive and overpowered so I may be reading that wrong, but that is what is literally written. Not -,

"For each gem assigned, the hero rolls one die of the type indicated on their Melee Attack space. Then the dice indicated on the chosen card are rolled and the results totalled together. Regardless of the amount of gems assigned to an individual attack, equipement dice are only rolled once per attack"... or something along those lines....
 
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William Aull
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Old Deep One wrote:
volkan wrote:
Weapon dice can be applied to each attack.


The rules imply weapon dice are applied to EACH GEM assigned to each attack. So 3 gems put into ONE ATTACK grants 3x Attack Dice and appicable re-rolls PLUS 3x weapon dice.

To quote the rulebook - "Then, for each gem assigned, the hero rolls one die of the type indicated on their Melee Attack space, plus the dice indicated on the chosen card".

... this seems counterintuitive and overpowered so I may be reading that wrong, but that is what is literally written. Not -,

"For each gem assigned, the hero rolls one die of the type indicated on their Melee Attack space. Then the dice indicated on the chosen card are rolled and the results totalled together. Regardless of the amount of gems assigned to an individual attack, equipement dice are only rolled once per attack"... or something along those lines....


Yup. You'll spend separately when you make multiple attacks--for example, spend 1 gem on an attack, get 1 dice plus weapon dice, deal damage/enemy has choice to spend gems to defend, and THEN you can decide if you want to attack again, another target, etc. The only limit to the # of attacks you can make is dictated on the attack space.
 
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Izzy Marsh
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Hillean wrote:
Old Deep One wrote:
volkan wrote:
Weapon dice can be applied to each attack.


The rules imply weapon dice are applied to EACH GEM assigned to each attack. So 3 gems put into ONE ATTACK grants 3x Attack Dice and appicable re-rolls PLUS 3x weapon dice.

To quote the rulebook - "Then, for each gem assigned, the hero rolls one die of the type indicated on their Melee Attack space, plus the dice indicated on the chosen card".

... this seems counterintuitive and overpowered so I may be reading that wrong, but that is what is literally written. Not -,

"For each gem assigned, the hero rolls one die of the type indicated on their Melee Attack space. Then the dice indicated on the chosen card are rolled and the results totalled together. Regardless of the amount of gems assigned to an individual attack, equipement dice are only rolled once per attack"... or something along those lines....


Yup. You'll spend separately when you make multiple attacks--for example, spend 1 gem on an attack, get 1 dice plus weapon dice, deal damage/enemy has choice to spend gems to defend, and THEN you can decide if you want to attack again, another target, etc. The only limit to the # of attacks you can make is dictated on the attack space.


SO you are confirming that you DO receive multiple weapon card dice on ONE attack if you spend multiple gems on that single strike?
 
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Stephan Beal
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Old Deep One wrote:
SO you are confirming that you DO receive multiple weapon card dice on ONE attack if you spend multiple gems on that single strike?


No - you never get to multiply your weapon's dice on a single attack.

If you make multiple attacks you get the weapon dice on EACH ATTACK. If you make a "big attack," with multiple gems, you get 1 of your Melee-box resp. Range-box dice PER GEM, plus 1x your Melee resp. Ranged weapon dice.
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Izzy Marsh
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sgbeal wrote:
Old Deep One wrote:
SO you are confirming that you DO receive multiple weapon card dice on ONE attack if you spend multiple gems on that single strike?


No - you never get to multiply your weapon's dice on a single attack.

If you make multiple attacks you get the weapon dice on EACH ATTACK. If you make a "big attack," with multiple gems, you get 1 of your Melee-box resp. Range-box dice PER GEM, plus 1x your Melee resp. Ranged weapon dice.


Thanks for your reply sgbeal, and I take you at your word (you know this game far better than I ever shall methinks) but where in the rulebook does it state that?

It says (paraphrasing) "for each gem you gain the heroes melee attack ability plus the equipment cards benefits". I'm reading the word PLUS as AND here.

I understand about multiple single-gem attacks, I'm talking about one big multi-gem strike here.

I'm not arguing here, I just need to know where my logic is failing!
 
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Stephan Beal
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Old Deep One wrote:
Thanks for your reply sgbeal, and I take you at your word (you know this game far better than I ever shall methinks) but where in the rulebook does it state that?


Heroes' Book, page 5:

Quote:
To perform the Melee Attack action, the hero chooses one enemy in their area ... to attack and assigned one or more gems from their Reserve zone to their Melee Attack space. The hero may choose one of their equipment cards that has a Melee Attack bonus to attack with. Then, for each gem assigned, the hero rolls one die of the type indicated on their Melee Attack space, plus the dice indicated on the chosen card.


The key parts are in the last sentence:

- PER GEM, ONE DIE of the type indicated
- PLUS the dice indicated on the chosen card

They "should" have reversed the order of those to remove any ambiguity regarding whether "per gem" applies to the weapon, i.e.:

- the dice indicated on the chosen card
- plus, per gem, one die of the type indicated

but they didn't. Any video walk-through from the original KS clearly demonstrates, however, that you don't add the weapon dice multiple times.
 
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William Aull
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Should be 'per attack' instead of 'per gem', I can see how this can get fuzzy.

You only add weapon dice once per attack, so if you make multiple attacks you add it multiple times. One big attack, added once.
 
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Stephan Beal
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Hillean wrote:
Should be 'per attack' instead of 'per gem', I can see how this can get fuzzy.

You only add weapon dice once per attack, so if you make multiple attacks you add it multiple times. One big attack, added once.


Correct, but the rule is the same regardless of how many gems: 1x weapon bonus (if any), Nx Melee/Ranged dice, where N=number of gems.

The results, of course, are different depending on whether you attack many "small" times or one "big" time: many little attacks can't normally penetrate armor effectively.
 
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Izzy Marsh
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Brilliant, thank you very much for your patience and understanding here. I was just interpreting the sentence wrong. Good, I thought it would be illogical to gain that much benefit (overpowered and counterintuitive).

I shall never facepalm at anothers 'dumb question' again, now having asked a cracking numbnuts one myself!
 
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Stephan Beal
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Old Deep One wrote:
Brilliant, thank you very much for your patience and understanding here. I was just interpreting the sentence wrong. Good, I thought it would be illogical to gain that much benefit (overpowered and counterintuitive).

I shall never facepalm at anothers 'dumb question' again, now having asked a cracking numbnuts one myself!


No worries - the wording is, i agree (upon rereading), potentially ambiguous with regard to how many times the weapon dice apply. i hadn't noticed because i remembered the mechanics from the initial videos back during the KS :/. (It was the mechanics of the game which captivated me, at least as much as CONAN.)
 
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