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Subject: Quote me happy rss

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Terry Kirk
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I'm looking for someone who can create me a card front design for my card game.

I have a rough mockup of what I want it to look like, which I don't have on me, but I'll put it up later.

If you are interested drop me a message with a quote.

I also require the copyright of the design to be transferred to me.
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Guilhem Bedos
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kirkatronics wrote:
[...]

I also require the copyright of the design to be transferred to me.

This is illegal: international laws are very clear on this point –a creator remains the only owner of his/her own work, he/she can only sell exploitation right; duration of this right can be infinite thought...
 
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Terry Kirk
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Guilhem wrote:
kirkatronics wrote:
[...]

I also require the copyright of the design to be transferred to me.

This is illegal: international laws are very clear on this point –a creator remains the only owner of his/her own work, he/she can only sell exploitation right; duration of this right can be infinite thought...

Which law would that be?
 
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Ian O'Toole
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Guilhem wrote:
kirkatronics wrote:
[...]

I also require the copyright of the design to be transferred to me.

This is illegal: international laws are very clear on this point –a creator remains the only owner of his/her own work, he/she can only sell exploitation right; duration of this right can be infinite thought...


Nope, that's not true. A contract can stipulate transfer of full ownership to another party indefinitely.
 
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Terry Kirk
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Ianotoole wrote:
Guilhem wrote:
kirkatronics wrote:
[...]

I also require the copyright of the design to be transferred to me.

This is illegal: international laws are very clear on this point –a creator remains the only owner of his/her own work, he/she can only sell exploitation right; duration of this right can be infinite thought...


Nope, that's not true. A contract can stipulate transfer of full ownership to another party indefinitely.

I'm curious as to what law he's read.
 
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Marco Echevarria

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I don't know about other countries but I suspect that the laws elsewhere are similar to those in the US. An artist owns the copyright to the work they do unless they agree otherwise. So, if a client wants the full copyright to the work they can negotiate that.

The only time that does not automatically apply is when a designer or artist works full time for a company. Then the rights are owned by the employer.
 
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Terry Kirk
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BurnCreative wrote:
I don't know about other countries but I suspect that the laws elsewhere are similar to those in the US. An artist owns the copyright to the work they do unless they agree otherwise. So, if a client wants the full copyright to the work they can negotiate that.

The only time that does not automatically apply is when a designer or artist works full time for a company. Then the rights are owned by the employer.

I have done a lot of research into copyright, patents, trademarks etc.. and have never seen anything even remotely like what Guilhem mentioned.
 
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Jake Staines
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He's probably referring to "moral rights", which are a feature of some copyright systems - including, IIRC, those of Germany and Spain? Basically the premise is that the artist cannot have the work entirely taken from them, so they always have some basic say in how it's used. So you couldn't draw a satirical anti-nazi poster and find a bit of it gets cropped out by someone your employer sold it to and used as a pro-nazi poster, for example.

We don't have them in the UK and the US doesn't have them, but I believe we are obliged by international copyright treaties to honour them when the work is originally copyrighted (read: created) in a jurisdiction where they apply. So he's probably right, but only when talking about an artist from one of those countries.
 
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Guilhem Bedos
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Wow, I didn't think my message would make so much of a fuss...

Anyway, everything is detailed in the Berne Convention, if you feel like reading such a long document. Basically, it describes what Jake Staines said. The thing is that, when the USA joined this convention in 1988, it demanded some adjustements and rules of exception for itself: so some things are possible in the USA which are not possible in some other countries, like mine (France).

My point was: for we are on an international forum, you may never know in advance where the artist who will work for you lives in, and therefore which law he's supposed to abide to –and you'd be surprised with the number of authors who ignore their rights and obligations: in other words you can put yourself in trouble without even knowing it...

As a side note, and I do not mean to be obnoxious in any way in saying this, except when you're a well established editor with a firm customer base, planning to buy such rights is usually unnecessarily costy: let's face it, the immense majority of first projects are failures so there's no need to add small expenses to big ones; though, if your game is successful, you'll still be able to negociate these rights at a later date –they may be a bit less cheap but a commercial success means you'll be able to afford them anyway.
 
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Jake Staines
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Guilhem wrote:

As a side note, and I do not mean to be obnoxious in any way in saying this, except when you're a well established editor with a firm customer base, planning to buy such rights is usually unnecessarily costy: let's face it, the immense majority of first projects are failures so there's no need to add small expenses to big ones; though, if your game is successful, you'll still be able to negociate these rights at a later date –they may be a bit less cheap but a commercial success means you'll be able to afford them anyway.


I would add: for most commercial exploitation, you don't actually need to own the copyright to ensure you're the only one who uses that image anyway. You could just take out an exclusive license with the artist, whereby you have unlimited perpetual rights to use the work for a one-off cost and the artist is barred from selling the same work to anyone else. This is still perfectly legal under moral-rights systems of copyright, and obviously works fine in our UK system too. Often this is done on a usage-type basis - so you might take out an exclusive license for using your card-back image in tabletop gaming applications, including printing the game itself and marketing and accessories, whereas the artist retains the copyright and also the rights to sell the same image in blown-up prints, for example, or printed on USB sticks or whatever.
 
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Terry Kirk
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I see, it makes sense when considering hiring artists from other countries.
Guilhem wrote:
Wow, I didn't think my message would make so much of a fuss...

Anyway, everything is detailed in the Berne Convention, if you feel like reading such a long document. Basically, it describes what Jake Staines said. The thing is that, when the USA joined this convention in 1988, it demanded some adjustements and rules of exception for itself: so some things are possible in the USA which are not possible in some other countries, like mine (France).

My point was: for we are on an international forum, you may never know in advance where the artist who will work for you lives in, and therefore which law he's supposed to abide to –and you'd be surprised with the number of authors who ignore their rights and obligations: in other words you can put yourself in trouble without even knowing it...

As a side note, and I do not mean to be obnoxious in any way in saying this, except when you're a well established editor with a firm customer base, planning to buy such rights is usually unnecessarily costy: let's face it, the immense majority of first projects are failures so there's no need to add small expenses to big ones; though, if your game is successful, you'll still be able to negociate these rights at a later date –they may be a bit less cheap but a commercial success means you'll be able to afford them anyway.

I didn't see you as being obnoxious, I wanted to know what made you believe the comment to be true as I have read about copyright for the UK and US, and never saw anything even related.

I guess it's something to read up on.
 
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Timothe Lapetite
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I'm curious here, I think it would help to understand what you are looking for with the 'I also require the copyright of the design to be transfered to me'

I think what you mean is 'you will need to sell/give/abandon all exploitation rights' (which require a contract)
Note that this would be for illustration/art, rather than graphic design.

Modification rights is another thing too, you may own exploitation rights without having the modification ones.
Exploitation right may be sold, for exemple, for 5000 print runs, and after that a new contract is required.

Although objectively illustration and graphic design are artistic disciplines, they aren't governed by the sames rules & laws.
Graphic design is usually more of a one-shot deal, since it is the representation of your brand, and your brand is you, think of it more as a 'service' (or wrapper)
Illustration is a single 'piece' of work.

A dumb parallel would be, the graphic design being the museum, and the art as a painting : you can move a painting around and use it in another museum, but not modify it. However, you can modify a museum, and do whatever you wish to with the building.

That's of course generally speaking. Contracts are here to take care of the details and add special conditions, so graphic design could be considered like a painting if you sign for it, as well as a painting up for you to cut down to pieces. In the end, it's all about what has been written down and signed off by the two parties.
 
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John A. White
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BurnCreative wrote:
I don't know about other countries but I suspect that the laws elsewhere are similar to those in the US. An artist owns the copyright to the work they do unless they agree otherwise. So, if a client wants the full copyright to the work they can negotiate that.

The only time that does not automatically apply is when a designer or artist works full time for a company. Then the rights are owned by the employer.

I agree..

I guess Disney is not real... And has no art, just copies.
 
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Terry Kirk
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I managed to find an artist. Thanks for all the feedback.
 
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Marco Echevarria

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"I guess Disney is not real... And has no art, just copies."


What?
 
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Brendan Riley
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1. This should all be spelled out in a contract. Yes.

2. It is not unusual for the copyright to reside with the person making the game. Otherwise the artist could sell the same art to other game makers, or for use in other media, and dilute its value in the game.

The principle here is "work for hire." Usually (in the US), if someone commissions a piece of art for a project, the art is then owned, wholly, by the person who commissioned the art.

But this should be spelled out clearly in the contract, along with any residual rights to the art that the artist would have, such as selling prints on their personal website, or something.

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ09.pdf

TL;DR - Spell this all out, in writing, before the artist starts work or money changes hands.
 
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