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Subject: Griefer vs. Game Guru rss

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Marek Čtrnáct
Czech Republic
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You have two Geek players. One plays Griefer and chooses the "Destroy a minion" mode for the other. Can he select Game Guru for destruction, only for the destruction to fail because Game Guru can't be affected by opponent's actions?
 
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Jonathan Maisonneuve
Canada
Quebec
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Post the whole text of both cards FFS. Not everybody knows every cards by hearth and/or have acces to their cards (or want to pull out the game and go check them) on the spot.
 
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Andre Oliveira
Brazil
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Yes.
Griefer doesn't state that the player must choose a destructible minion.
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Marek Čtrnáct
Czech Republic
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Wildhorn wrote:
Post the whole text of both cards FFS. Not everybody knows every cards by hearth and/or have acces to their cards (or want to pull out the game and go check them) on the spot.


Griefer
Action
Choose one effect for each other player. That player discards a random card, or destroys one of his or her minions, or shuffles his or her discard pile into his or her deck.
Geeks x1

Game Guru
Minion, Power 3
Ongoing: This minion is not affected by other players' abilities.
Geeks x3
 
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Kent Hurley
Australia
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desocupado wrote:
Yes.
Griefer doesn't state that the player must choose a destructible minion.

Griefer doesn't say you choose a minion, just that you have to destroy one. If you have minions other than game guru in play then you would have to choose a destructible minion.
 
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Andre Oliveira
Brazil
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krabmeat wrote:
desocupado wrote:
Yes.
Griefer doesn't state that the player must choose a destructible minion.

Griefer doesn't say you choose a minion, just that you have to destroy one. If you have minions other than game guru in play then you would have to choose a destructible minion.

Why? It's the owner who is choosing the target.
 
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Russell Bloomer
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The Geek B player can select Game Guru, and Game Guru would be destroyed. Game Guru protects against other players abilities, but it isn't the other player that is performing the destruction. It is Geek B, which isn't protected.
 
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Kent Hurley
Australia
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desocupado wrote:
krabmeat wrote:
desocupado wrote:
Yes.
Griefer doesn't state that the player must choose a destructible minion.

Griefer doesn't say you choose a minion, just that you have to destroy one. If you have minions other than game guru in play then you would have to choose a destructible minion.

Why? It's the owner who is choosing the target.

And it's Griefer making the player choose, which is an effect from another player's card.
 
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Vespert Ilio
France
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krabmeat wrote:
desocupado wrote:
Yes.
Griefer doesn't state that the player must choose a destructible minion.

Griefer doesn't say you choose a minion, just that you have to destroy one. If you have minions other than game guru in play then you would have to choose a destructible minion.

Nothing in the game forces you to choose a destructible minion over an indestructible one. From the rules, "you can play an action that destroys a minion even if no minions are in play, or if the minion you choose is immune to destruction."
So, Griefer can be used to make a player destroy one of their minions, and that player can choose to destroy a minion that cannot be (e.g. their Game Guru that's immune to opponent's cards), even if they have another eligible minion that would not be immune to Griefer.
 
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Kent Hurley
Australia
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Game Guru isn't immune to destruction. It's immune to being affected by other player's abilities.
 
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Vespert Ilio
France
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krabmeat wrote:
Game Guru isn't immune to destruction. It's immune to being affected by other player's abilities.

Being destroyed is included in the definition of being affected. If it's immune to being affected by other player's abilities, then it's immune to being destroyed by other player's abilities.
 
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Kent Hurley
Australia
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Yes, but the problem is whether or not a player can choose to destroy an indestructible minion as part of another player's action. I.E. is the Game Guru a valid choice for a player being affected by another player's Griefer.

The issue isn't destruction. It's choice of target. The relevant part of Griefer is " or destroys one of his or her minions." There is no out in the form of the keyword "choose" that you can choose to target an indestructible minion. You simply must decide which minion be destroyed, and that can never be Game Guru, nor can Game Guru ever block an attempt to destroy a minion.
 
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Vespert Ilio
France
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krabmeat wrote:
Yes, but the problem is whether or not a player can choose to destroy an indestructible minion as part of another player's action. I.E. is the Game Guru a valid choice for a player being affected by another player's Griefer.

Here's my answer:
Vespert wrote:
Griefer can be used to make a player destroy one of their minions, and that player can choose to destroy a minion that cannot be

krabmeat wrote:

The issue isn't destruction. It's choice of target. The relevant part of Griefer is " or destroys one of his or her minions." There is no out in the form of the keyword "choose" that you can choose to target an indestructible minion. You simply must decide which minion be destroyed, and that can never be Game Guru

The rules specify that you can always choose an indestructible minion as part of an ability that tells you to destroy a minion. Even Bryan Stout from AEG (aka barliman) says you can choose an indestructible minion.
krabmeat wrote:
nor can Game Guru ever block an attempt to destroy a minion.

Also, unless it comes from a card belonging to its controller or the ability of a base, Game Guru can block other player's attempts to destroy it, otherwise what's the point of its ability?
 
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Kent Hurley
Australia
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Again, the issue isn't whether Game Guru can be destroyed, it's about whether Game Guru is a valid target in the first place.
 
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Vespert Ilio
France
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krabmeat wrote:
Again, the issue isn't whether Game Guru can be destroyed, it's about whether Game Guru is a valid target in the first place.

Yes, it is a valid target. You're free to choose any of your minions.
 
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Marek Čtrnáct
Czech Republic
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Thanks for all the discussion The past DE patch went in the direction "can't be chosen", but I think they will update it.
 
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