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Subject: Neat but repetitive? Why so basic? rss

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Christopher James
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Lets start by saying - the AI deck is neat, persistent damage is neat, settlement building and crafting is neat... the storytelling/rpg elements are neat. And yet...all you ever do is fight 1 enemy.

Anyone else feel the same way?
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Greysbull
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"all you ever do is fight 1 enemy"

Saying something like that about a game like KDM is just like saying "all you ever do is drive 1 vehicle" about any racing video games.
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Brian Torrens
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As a potential backer of the next KS in November, I will be interested to hear the responses to this.... I play Myth, Descent and am anxiously awaiting the arrival of Folklore and Middara (yes I really like my fantasy adventure games).

It seems to me that KD:M is all about the build up to an "epic boss fight". I did initially wonder however about the lack of minions or lesser enemies in some of the battles.
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Christopher James
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Brian T wrote:
As a potential backer of the next KS in November, I will be interested to hear the responses to this.... I play Myth, Descent and am anxiously awaiting the arrival of Folklore and Middara (yes I really like my fantasy adventure games).

It seems to me that KD:M is all about the build up to an "epic boss fight". I did initially wonder however about the lack of minions or lesser enemies in some of the battles.


Imperial Assault makes this game look like a joke (game play wise)
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Greysbull
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The showdown is just half of the game. You spend the other half in the settlement (building new locations, crafting gear, etc.) and the hunt phases.

Talking specifically about the showdown (aka boss fight), it isn't simply a "one enemy fight". The gameplay is quite different than a regular dungeon crawler, where you position your character in range against an enemy and chuck dice until one of the 2 are dead. The monster will keep moving through the arena, you'll need to run away from the monster every now and then and hide from him in several occasions to be able to survive, some monsters actually have minions (such as Spidicules and, in a certain way, the Dung Beetle Knight). Each monster fights completely differently than the other ones, and even different levels of the same monster feel like different monsters.
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Kain
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This may sound dishonest, but I actually enjoy someone rolling into a forum dedicated to a game and basically saying;

"Yo, F&#@! this game! Erm'a'right!?|
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Greysbull
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tierdal wrote:
Brian T wrote:
As a potential backer of the next KS in November, I will be interested to hear the responses to this.... I play Myth, Descent and am anxiously awaiting the arrival of Folklore and Middara (yes I really like my fantasy adventure games).

It seems to me that KD:M is all about the build up to an "epic boss fight". I did initially wonder however about the lack of minions or lesser enemies in some of the battles.


Imperial Assault makes this game look like a joke (game play wise)


What exactly are you trying to achieve here? How can you even compare the 2 games "game play wise" even though they are pretty much completely different?
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Christopher James
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Dark63 wrote:
This may sound dishonest, but I actually enjoy someone rolling into a forum dedicated to a game and basically saying;

"Yo, F&#@! this game! Erm'a'right!?|


+1
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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nice analogy

however, I felt "to fight just one enemy" on my first campaign, after I got an average of two survivors crippled per showdown after prologue, LY1 and LY2, and was searching for the gear that was working... after that, I learned that bone darts made a lion so much easier, and again that dried acanthus was a life saver, and then I learned to exploit some mods, and after that. I realized that I never considered two white lions the same, and was doing that for a long time. Of course, now that I am approaching 300 hours playing (I was writing 200, then I counted ), I'd rather hunt a gorm, since after having hunted 30 smart cards, it grows old indeed.

My point is, the first opinion comes from not knowing the game, just looking at a single monster mini and thinking that it is not enough variety. then, you get to play, and the feeling dissipates as soon as you begin to understand what to do.
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Paul Lodge
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A friend of mine said it really hasn't gone down well with his gaming group. There's 6 of them, & only two liked it. They thought it was very repetitive and found it quite boring, although they liked the settlement phase. The four that didn't like really don't want to play it again.

They like lots of other 'big games: Descent, Imperial Assault, Mansions of Madness', games that appeal to me too, so I think we have similar tastes. I was really pumped for the KS re-release, but after hearing their opinions and watching some You Tube videos, I'm really turned off now.
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Christopher James
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Laardge11 wrote:
A friend of mine said it really hasn't gone down well with his gaming group. There's 6 of them, & only two liked it. They thought it was very repetitive and found it quite boring, although they liked the settlement phase. The four that didn't like really don't want to play it again.

They like lots of other 'big games: Descent, Imperial Assault, Mansions of Madness', games that appeal to me too, so I think we have similar tastes. I was really pumped for the KS re-release, but after hearing their opinions and watching some You Tube videos, I'm really turned off now.


Settlement phase is amazing.

And you totally can compare 2 miniature games. KDM's one enemy is certainly more interesting than any enemy in imeperial assualt. The AI deck while finnicky is a work of genius...really cool stuff. But in terms of gameplay complexity and chocies overalll...its really run of the mill
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Purple Octopus
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tierdal wrote:
Lets start by saying - the AI deck is neat, persistent damage is neat, settlement building and crafting is neat... the storytelling/rpg elements are neat. And yet...all you ever do is fight 1 enemy.

Anyone else feel the same way?


You know, I think I used to. When I was fighting level 1 Lions, some antelopes, and a Butcher, I was kind of dismayed a little. Didn't think it could get too interesting, but I liked it a bunch.

Then I fought the King's Man and was impressed by how different it felt. And then the Phoenix, and lv 2 hunts... it really blossoms. You start to have a lot of table talk, figuring out order activation, survival actions, stuff like that. It gets really intense, but rewards good gameplay.

And I love me some IA/Descent. The massed combat is cool. But my table talk is different there - more relaxed, less calculating, but no less fun. Just different.

I guess what I'm saying, is that there are a lot of games that do massed combat right. But there aren't a whole lot of games that do bosses right. And that's what KD is - boss rush mode.

Also, if you want to fight many dudes at once, try out the Spidicules.

And if you're here to trash talk it, that's cool too. 1v1 me scrub, call the cops idgaf, etc etc.

EDIT: Oh, hey. How many Lantern Years have you gone through? Just out of curiosity.
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Lehane Richards
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tierdal wrote:
Lets start by saying - the AI deck is neat, persistent damage is neat, settlement building and crafting is neat... the storytelling/rpg elements are neat. And yet...all you ever do is fight 1 enemy.

Anyone else feel the same way?


Just because a format is rigid (4 vs one enemy) doesn't make it boring. Boxing, UFC, in fact any sport has rigid format, yet we still watch. It's what happens within that rigid format that makes or breaks the game.

* This game can be played by one player or a team.
* The AI deck changes, meaning the same level monster can feel different to the last.
* The survivors can go in to a fight with different gear and abilities due to the results of the hunt and settlement phases

All of these give the rigid format deep variation. And then you have Spidicules.

Don't get me wrong, Imperial Assault is good, but the strategy isn't as deep. The sense of accomplishment isn't as rewarding. KD:M is just a game on a different level. And if you honestly feel that it's getting samey, change the nemeses and quarry. That'll change everything.
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Christopher James
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Ultros64 wrote:
tierdal wrote:
Lets start by saying - the AI deck is neat, persistent damage is neat, settlement building and crafting is neat... the storytelling/rpg elements are neat. And yet...all you ever do is fight 1 enemy.

Anyone else feel the same way?


You know, I think I used to. When I was fighting level 1 Lions, some antelopes, and a Butcher, I was kind of dismayed a little. Didn't think it could get too interesting, but I liked it a bunch.

Then I fought the King's Man and was impressed by how different it felt. And then the Phoenix, and lv 2 hunts... it really blossoms. You start to have a lot of table talk, figuring out order activation, survival actions, stuff like that. It gets really intense, but rewards good gameplay.

And I love me some IA/Descent. The massed combat is cool. But my table talk is different there - more relaxed, less calculating, but no less fun. Just different.

I guess what I'm saying, is that there are a lot of games that do massed combat right. But there aren't a whole lot of games that do bosses right. And that's what KD is - boss rush mode.

Also, if you want to fight many dudes at once, try out the Spidicules.

And if you're here to trash talk it, that's cool too. 1v1 me scrub, call the cops idgaf, etc etc.

EDIT: Oh, hey. How many Lantern Years have you gone through? Just out of curiosity.


Great response...maybe I will give it one more try.

We fought the big fat tentacle guy? And the kingsman?

While I agree with you the boss combat IS well done (AI deck is really smart)... the game is SO punishing my group just takes in random scrub villagers to die vs butcher/kingsman ect... cause they know we are going to die. At that point whats the fun of having a cool boss if you cant even beat it.

I think we have done 8 years?
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Christopher James
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Shu1984 wrote:
tierdal wrote:
Brian T wrote:
As a potential backer of the next KS in November, I will be interested to hear the responses to this.... I play Myth, Descent and am anxiously awaiting the arrival of Folklore and Middara (yes I really like my fantasy adventure games).

It seems to me that KD:M is all about the build up to an "epic boss fight". I did initially wonder however about the lack of minions or lesser enemies in some of the battles.


Imperial Assault makes this game look like a joke (game play wise)


This guy has a different opition then me! Troll warning. Do not feed it!!!




Fixed!
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Purple Octopus
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tierdal wrote:
Ultros64 wrote:
tierdal wrote:
Lets start by saying - the AI deck is neat, persistent damage is neat, settlement building and crafting is neat... the storytelling/rpg elements are neat. And yet...all you ever do is fight 1 enemy.

Anyone else feel the same way?


You know, I think I used to. When I was fighting level 1 Lions, some antelopes, and a Butcher, I was kind of dismayed a little. Didn't think it could get too interesting, but I liked it a bunch.

Then I fought the King's Man and was impressed by how different it felt. And then the Phoenix, and lv 2 hunts... it really blossoms. You start to have a lot of table talk, figuring out order activation, survival actions, stuff like that. It gets really intense, but rewards good gameplay.

And I love me some IA/Descent. The massed combat is cool. But my table talk is different there - more relaxed, less calculating, but no less fun. Just different.

I guess what I'm saying, is that there are a lot of games that do massed combat right. But there aren't a whole lot of games that do bosses right. And that's what KD is - boss rush mode.

Also, if you want to fight many dudes at once, try out the Spidicules.

And if you're here to trash talk it, that's cool too. 1v1 me scrub, call the cops idgaf, etc etc.

EDIT: Oh, hey. How many Lantern Years have you gone through? Just out of curiosity.


Great response...maybe I will give it one more try.

We fought the big fat tentacle guy? And the kingsman?

While I agree with you the boss combat IS well done (AI deck is really smart)... the game is SO punishing my group just takes in random scrub villagers to die vs butcher/kingsman ect... cause they know we are going to die. At that point whats the fun of having a cool boss if you cant even beat it.

I think we have done 8 years?


Right! Cool, I see where you're coming from now. The game is brutal, and I think sometimes that brutality makes your choices seem arbitrary. If everyone is gonna die... who gives a s***. There's no choice there, just finality.

It's hard to go from Descent, which is a game of singular, ass kicking heroes, to something like KD, where life is cheap. And while you can get incredible Survivors, it comes at the cost of many tiny plastic men and character sheets.

It does seem like you guys are doing pretty well though - LY 12 and 16 are hurdle years. If you're hitting walls on bosses and just taking the loss, start to look through their discard piles. Learn about what their general tactics (each obe actually does have a strategy to it). Plan your roles with your friends, groom survivors for those roles.

I will say that KD absolutely rewards strategic thinking, and more importantly strong players. Even if the dice try to screw you, if you have a solid plan and contingencies, you can bust through a lot of challenges.

Anyway, that's kind of a rant. If you like it enough to keep trying, totally go for it, I guarantee there is gold in that box. But don't force anything if it's just not your bag.

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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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Each Boss/Monster has an AI deck that offers a uniqueness at each encounter, rarely if ever will the AI play exactly the same... Now add three levels (and different AI cards) and you have a different encounter/fight each time.

I have yet to combat Spidicules... It has multiple mini-monsters so can go 7 monsters on 4 survivors.

But as the game goes... 1 monster/boss is still a handful for the survivors, especially in the early encounters before they have proper innovations.
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Mikael Salmela
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tierdal wrote:
Ultros64 wrote:
tierdal wrote:
Lets start by saying - the AI deck is neat, persistent damage is neat, settlement building and crafting is neat... the storytelling/rpg elements are neat. And yet...all you ever do is fight 1 enemy.

Anyone else feel the same way?


You know, I think I used to. When I was fighting level 1 Lions, some antelopes, and a Butcher, I was kind of dismayed a little. Didn't think it could get too interesting, but I liked it a bunch.

Then I fought the King's Man and was impressed by how different it felt. And then the Phoenix, and lv 2 hunts... it really blossoms. You start to have a lot of table talk, figuring out order activation, survival actions, stuff like that. It gets really intense, but rewards good gameplay.

And I love me some IA/Descent. The massed combat is cool. But my table talk is different there - more relaxed, less calculating, but no less fun. Just different.

I guess what I'm saying, is that there are a lot of games that do massed combat right. But there aren't a whole lot of games that do bosses right. And that's what KD is - boss rush mode.

Also, if you want to fight many dudes at once, try out the Spidicules.

And if you're here to trash talk it, that's cool too. 1v1 me scrub, call the cops idgaf, etc etc.

EDIT: Oh, hey. How many Lantern Years have you gone through? Just out of curiosity.


Great response...maybe I will give it one more try.

We fought the big fat tentacle guy? And the kingsman?

While I agree with you the boss combat IS well done (AI deck is really smart)... the game is SO punishing my group just takes in random scrub villagers to die vs butcher/kingsman ect... cause they know we are going to die. At that point whats the fun of having a cool boss if you cant even beat it.

I think we have done 8 years?


Well, to me, the most rewarding part of the game is figuring out the strategies required to beat each monster. When you figure it out, the fight becomes much easier and you can move to the next monster. For my group, the butcher is mostly a pushover (a relative term in kdm) now.

Still no idea on how to beat kingsman though arrrh
 
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David Tolin
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tierdal wrote:
Ultros64 wrote:
tierdal wrote:
Lets start by saying - the AI deck is neat, persistent damage is neat, settlement building and crafting is neat... the storytelling/rpg elements are neat. And yet...all you ever do is fight 1 enemy.

Anyone else feel the same way?


You know, I think I used to. When I was fighting level 1 Lions, some antelopes, and a Butcher, I was kind of dismayed a little. Didn't think it could get too interesting, but I liked it a bunch.

Then I fought the King's Man and was impressed by how different it felt. And then the Phoenix, and lv 2 hunts... it really blossoms. You start to have a lot of table talk, figuring out order activation, survival actions, stuff like that. It gets really intense, but rewards good gameplay.

And I love me some IA/Descent. The massed combat is cool. But my table talk is different there - more relaxed, less calculating, but no less fun. Just different.

I guess what I'm saying, is that there are a lot of games that do massed combat right. But there aren't a whole lot of games that do bosses right. And that's what KD is - boss rush mode.

Also, if you want to fight many dudes at once, try out the Spidicules.

And if you're here to trash talk it, that's cool too. 1v1 me scrub, call the cops idgaf, etc etc.

EDIT: Oh, hey. How many Lantern Years have you gone through? Just out of curiosity.


Great response...maybe I will give it one more try.

We fought the big fat tentacle guy? And the kingsman?

While I agree with you the boss combat IS well done (AI deck is really smart)... the game is SO punishing my group just takes in random scrub villagers to die vs butcher/kingsman ect... cause they know we are going to die. At that point whats the fun of having a cool boss if you cant even beat it.


This might just be a "git gud" moment. The Butcher and the King's Man can be beaten, and figuring out how is part of what makes KDM not feel like fighting the same enemy over and over.
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DavidT wrote:
tierdal wrote:
Ultros64 wrote:
tierdal wrote:
Lets start by saying - the AI deck is neat, persistent damage is neat, settlement building and crafting is neat... the storytelling/rpg elements are neat. And yet...all you ever do is fight 1 enemy.

Anyone else feel the same way?


You know, I think I used to. When I was fighting level 1 Lions, some antelopes, and a Butcher, I was kind of dismayed a little. Didn't think it could get too interesting, but I liked it a bunch.

Then I fought the King's Man and was impressed by how different it felt. And then the Phoenix, and lv 2 hunts... it really blossoms. You start to have a lot of table talk, figuring out order activation, survival actions, stuff like that. It gets really intense, but rewards good gameplay.

And I love me some IA/Descent. The massed combat is cool. But my table talk is different there - more relaxed, less calculating, but no less fun. Just different.

I guess what I'm saying, is that there are a lot of games that do massed combat right. But there aren't a whole lot of games that do bosses right. And that's what KD is - boss rush mode.

Also, if you want to fight many dudes at once, try out the Spidicules.

And if you're here to trash talk it, that's cool too. 1v1 me scrub, call the cops idgaf, etc etc.

EDIT: Oh, hey. How many Lantern Years have you gone through? Just out of curiosity.


Great response...maybe I will give it one more try.

We fought the big fat tentacle guy? And the kingsman?

While I agree with you the boss combat IS well done (AI deck is really smart)... the game is SO punishing my group just takes in random scrub villagers to die vs butcher/kingsman ect... cause they know we are going to die. At that point whats the fun of having a cool boss if you cant even beat it.


This might just be a "git gud" moment. The Butcher and the King's Man can be beaten, and figuring out how is part of what makes KDM not feel like fighting the same enemy over and over.


King's Man is an asshole, but it feels great to wreck him.

He was tough to "figure" out, and even still does some serious work on occasions.
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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I never "wrecked" a King's Man, I occasionally have a couple of guys standing after dealing last hit.
 
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I just want to add that even when u have ur winning strategy a couple of bad rolls and some AI cards together can really drive ur strategy down and then you have to think again how to counter that.

Also about the 1 enemy thing,yeah you can get to the end of the game with just hunting level 1 lions, but this way you are losing a lot of the game in terms of gameplay , gear and whatnot, also if you just use the lion gear you miss the chance of using another gear they may help a lot in nemesis fights.


For example, I was fightin against a kingsman level 2, had 2 super powerful survivors, everything was going great , then some dodge rolls failed , attack rolls failed and some cards decided to beautifully killed them both, TBH I was surprised but then I was happy to feel that the game can be unpredictable


So, next time you play just try new things! Some will be good and useful and others will be a disaster , but hey ! That's how u learn in KDM
 
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Lehane Richards
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Oh, I also think Imperial Assault will be relegated once Dark Souls hits, as well. That game looks much more beastly than Imperial Assault.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/steamforged/dark-soulst...
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Christopher James
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DavidT wrote:
tierdal wrote:
Ultros64 wrote:
tierdal wrote:
Lets start by saying - the AI deck is neat, persistent damage is neat, settlement building and crafting is neat... the storytelling/rpg elements are neat. And yet...all you ever do is fight 1 enemy.

Anyone else feel the same way?


You know, I think I used to. When I was fighting level 1 Lions, some antelopes, and a Butcher, I was kind of dismayed a little. Didn't think it could get too interesting, but I liked it a bunch.

Then I fought the King's Man and was impressed by how different it felt. And then the Phoenix, and lv 2 hunts... it really blossoms. You start to have a lot of table talk, figuring out order activation, survival actions, stuff like that. It gets really intense, but rewards good gameplay.

And I love me some IA/Descent. The massed combat is cool. But my table talk is different there - more relaxed, less calculating, but no less fun. Just different.

I guess what I'm saying, is that there are a lot of games that do massed combat right. But there aren't a whole lot of games that do bosses right. And that's what KD is - boss rush mode.

Also, if you want to fight many dudes at once, try out the Spidicules.

And if you're here to trash talk it, that's cool too. 1v1 me scrub, call the cops idgaf, etc etc.

EDIT: Oh, hey. How many Lantern Years have you gone through? Just out of curiosity.


Great response...maybe I will give it one more try.

We fought the big fat tentacle guy? And the kingsman?

While I agree with you the boss combat IS well done (AI deck is really smart)... the game is SO punishing my group just takes in random scrub villagers to die vs butcher/kingsman ect... cause they know we are going to die. At that point whats the fun of having a cool boss if you cant even beat it.


This might just be a "git gud" moment. The Butcher and the King's Man can be beaten, and figuring out how is part of what makes KDM not feel like fighting the same enemy over and over.


I mean - maybe we suck but like the dude runs up to our tank in full rawhide...and one shots him heh
 
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Kyle Currie
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tierdal wrote:
While I agree with you the boss combat IS well done (AI deck is really smart)... the game is SO punishing my group just takes in random scrub villagers to die vs butcher/kingsman ect... cause they know we are going to die. At that point whats the fun of having a cool boss if you cant even beat it.


On this note, maybe People of the Lantern (the base game campaign) isn't the right one for you.

Check out the Sunstalker expansion, which includes a variant campaign called People of the Sun. The reason why it might work better for your group:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
It introduces some new Survivor abilities and most importantly, a new rule - if you lose to a nemesis monster, you lose the ENTIRE campaign. So the campaign gives you some new tools to take on those big bads and also forces you to look at the Nemesis monsters in a new light. Instead of "Welp throw the scrubs at him" you start thinking "Welp, do or die, let's get him!"
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