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J.D. Hall
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This really is the most interesting, hilarious, amazing election of my lifetime, and that includes a county commissioner race where one candidate accused the other of having sex with pigs, only to have dead pigs show up on his driveway.

But, I'm not totally surprised by how the election for president is going. Politics is a blood-sport, and both parties have refined the art of getting elected/making sure your opponent doesn't get elected. Throw in computers and demographics, and politics does not resemble what it was when I was growing up.

A lot of Americans, of course, are sickened by the political climate of the 21st Century. That explains the success of Trump's campaign. Whatever else he might be, he is the real deal, an absolute political novice/outsider who wants to overturn the entire political order.

Which also explains why Clinton is handing him his ass right now.

Regardless of your opinion of Hillary Clinton or her record, one has to admit she is an expert politician. I would bet my last dollar that her campaign organization had done extensive opposition research on every one of the 17 Republicans in the race, as well as on Sanders and the Three Dwarfs who dropped out early. And like a good pol, her team did the same extensive search on Clinton's background. Obviously they were prepared for the Bill Clinton sex scandal stuff to come up sometime, and they had their counterfoil quite ready: the Billy Bush sex tape, the women coming forward claiming he was sexually inappropriate with them. Sure, Trump had Clinton screwing around on his wife and allegedly doing the same kind of things (in a broad sense) that Trump now stands accused of. Trump is floundering -- not on the issues (I'm guessing, don't hear much about issues right now) -- but because he is/was so unprepared for the cage-fight mentality in presidential elections. Trump said this morning he promised to release extensive information that will prove these women are lying "in a few days." In a few days? The news cycle will spin 24/7 about these women, and Trump wants to wait a few days? You gotta get out in front of these things, not trail behind.

Are the charges against Trump true? Who knows? And really, outside of the Trump family, who cares? If nothing else, it shows that Trump isn't organized, isn't detailed, isn't prepared for a major political campaign. Whatever the real issues are in this year's elections are pretty much buried right now under the shitpile of sexual allegations being thrown out by both camps. Ironically, Trump's strength is/was the issues -- agree with him or not, he always had an answer when faced with a question that was not political. But now he can't get away from Bimbogate v2.0

I am not a fan of Hillary Clinton, but goddammit, she's great at politics.
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remorseless1 wrote:
This really is the most interesting, hilarious, amazing election of my lifetime, and that includes a county commissioner race where one candidate accused the other of having sex with pigs, only to have dead pigs show up on his driveway.

But, I'm not totally surprised by how the election for president is going. Politics is a blood-sport, and both parties have refined the art of getting elected/making sure your opponent doesn't get elected. Throw in computers and demographics, and politics does not resemble what it was when I was growing up.

A lot of Americans, of course, are sickened by the political climate of the 21st Century. That explains the success of Trump's campaign. Whatever else he might be, he is the real deal, an absolute political novice/outsider who wants to overturn the entire political order.

Which also explains why Clinton is handing him his ass right now.

Regardless of your opinion of Hillary Clinton or her record, one has to admit she is an expert politician. I would bet my last dollar that her campaign organization had done extensive opposition research on every one of the 17 Republicans in the race, as well as on Sanders and the Three Dwarfs who dropped out early. And like a good pol, her team did the same extensive search on Clinton's background. Obviously they were prepared for the Bill Clinton sex scandal stuff to come up sometime, and they had their counterfoil quite ready: the Billy Bush sex tape, the women coming forward claiming he was sexually inappropriate with them. Sure, Trump had Clinton screwing around on his wife and allegedly doing the same kind of things (in a broad sense) that Trump now stands accused of. Trump is floundering -- not on the issues (I'm guessing, don't hear much about issues right now) -- but because he is/was so unprepared for the cage-fight mentality in presidential elections. Trump said this morning he promised to release extensive information that will prove these women are lying "in a few days." In a few days? The news cycle will spin 24/7 about these women, and Trump wants to wait a few days? You gotta get out in front of these things, not trail behind.

Are the charges against Trump true? Who knows? And really, outside of the Trump family, who cares? If nothing else, it shows that Trump isn't organized, isn't detailed, isn't prepared for a major political campaign. Whatever the real issues are in this year's elections are pretty much buried right now under the shitpile of sexual allegations being thrown out by both camps. Ironically, Trump's strength is/was the issues -- agree with him or not, he always had an answer when faced with a question that was not political. But now he can't get away from Bimbogate v2.0

I am not a fan of Hillary Clinton, but goddammit, she's great at politics.


The OrangeMan has proven that he isn't even good at being Donald during this election. The years of sliding by, using his power as his only weapon, left him both attackless and defenseless in this election.

He is a foolish man, constructed of foolish tendencies.
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Chris Binkowski
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Politics IS war without bloodshed.

The bloodshed comes later on foreign soil, and in poor neighborhoods.
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Sam I am
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remorseless1 wrote:
This really is the most interesting, hilarious, amazing election of my lifetime, and that includes a county commissioner race where one candidate accused the other of having sex with pigs, only to have dead pigs show up on his driveway.

But, I'm not totally surprised by how the election for president is going. Politics is a blood-sport, and both parties have refined the art of getting elected/making sure your opponent doesn't get elected. Throw in computers and demographics, and politics does not resemble what it was when I was growing up.

A lot of Americans, of course, are sickened by the political climate of the 21st Century. That explains the success of Trump's campaign. Whatever else he might be, he is the real deal, an absolute political novice/outsider who wants to overturn the entire political order.

Which also explains why Clinton is handing him his ass right now.

Regardless of your opinion of Hillary Clinton or her record, one has to admit she is an expert politician. I would bet my last dollar that her campaign organization had done extensive opposition research on every one of the 17 Republicans in the race, as well as on Sanders and the Three Dwarfs who dropped out early. And like a good pol, her team did the same extensive search on Clinton's background. Obviously they were prepared for the Bill Clinton sex scandal stuff to come up sometime, and they had their counterfoil quite ready: the Billy Bush sex tape, the women coming forward claiming he was sexually inappropriate with them. Sure, Trump had Clinton screwing around on his wife and allegedly doing the same kind of things (in a broad sense) that Trump now stands accused of. Trump is floundering -- not on the issues (I'm guessing, don't hear much about issues right now) -- but because he is/was so unprepared for the cage-fight mentality in presidential elections. Trump said this morning he promised to release extensive information that will prove these women are lying "in a few days." In a few days? The news cycle will spin 24/7 about these women, and Trump wants to wait a few days? You gotta get out in front of these things, not trail behind.

Are the charges against Trump true? Who knows? And really, outside of the Trump family, who cares? If nothing else, it shows that Trump isn't organized, isn't detailed, isn't prepared for a major political campaign. Whatever the real issues are in this year's elections are pretty much buried right now under the shitpile of sexual allegations being thrown out by both camps. Ironically, Trump's strength is/was the issues -- agree with him or not, he always had an answer when faced with a question that was not political. But now he can't get away from Bimbogate v2.0

I am not a fan of Hillary Clinton, but goddammit, she's great at politics.


I'll bet the "evidence" will be released at the same time as his taxes and the results of his privately funded birther investigation.
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jeremy cobert
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cedar rapids
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remorseless1 wrote:
I am not a fan of Hillary Clinton, but goddammit, she's great at politics.


I disagree, she appears to be a horrible politician, but she has a great political machine behind her. She cheats to beat Bernie, she escapes the FBI as we learned by working with the white house and never has there been a candidate with a more friendly press on their side.

But in the end, the big banks and pro war machine, get their candidate elected and we get 4 to 8 more years of the Bush era policies.

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jeremycobert wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
I am not a fan of Hillary Clinton, but goddammit, she's great at politics.


I disagree, she appears to be a horrible politician, but she has a great political machine behind her. She cheats to beat Bernie, she escapes the FBI as we learned by working with the white house and never has there been a candidate with a more friendly press on their side.

But in the end, the big banks and pro war machine, get their candidate elected and we get 4 to 8 more years of the Bush era policies.



She has Donald bent over a chair, rogering him with Melania's strap on.

I would call that a master politician.

Then again, you are wrong on almost every count in life, so why would you suddenly get something right at this stage.

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Chris Binkowski
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remorseless1 wrote:
...one has to admit she is an expert politician.

I am not a fan of Hillary Clinton...she's great at politics.


I suppose it depends on how you define 'politics'. Getting into a position of power and using power for good are two entirely separate things.
 
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jeremy cobert
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darthhugo wrote:
She has Donald bent over a chair, rogering him with Melania's strap on.

I thought referring to sexual violence towards women was offensive ?

[q="darthhugo"]I would call that a master politician.


You think Trump is a great politician ? She is beating a guy who is an idiot of a politician. She happens to be catching the GOP at the right time as it is in transition from the Bush era neo-con hacks into something different. At some point in the next 10 years, the pendulum will swing back and I assume the GOP will look much different then it did. Trump is just the first to appeal to the dis satisfaction of the people within the GOP.

The big question is, will Trump take down the entire GOP with him.
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Matthew Schoell
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Don't forget the massive self inflicted wounds of the Trump campaign. Sure, right now we have this big set of information coming out about the sexual assault language and specific incidents. Who could have seen this coming, right?

The answer is a self-opposition research team. A group of people you pay to do the exact same thing you expect your enemy's campaign to do. Bannon and Conway and Ailes could have been prepared for this. Is it a real surprise that this information is coming out now? It's a particularly damaging time; the history of misogyny is disgusting in its own right, and now is a visible lens that colors everyone's perceptions of the debates a month before the election.

Except that Trump refused to allow self-opposition research. He shut that down. So all of this garbage that could have been prepared for wasn't, and because he is the candidate who can't be stopped from shitting all over twitter at 3 in the morning to snipe at a beauty pageant winner, we get the unadulterated, ill-considered raw garbage he spits out. A well run campaign prepares, it could have a clear message to handle any one of these incidents. Instead, it spends all its time trying to support the message its uncontrollable candidate blasts out. Is it any wonder the RNC is limiting funding?
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Drew1365 wrote:
No. She's a horrible politician. She just has an excellent propaganda ministry propping her up.


Drew

what's it like being a lifelong mediocrity, desperate to tear down people clearly more talented than you at pretty much everything so you can pretend you're slightly above average as a person

i'm genuinely curious, if you can take the time out of your made-up pity church job to answer the question i'd appreciate it
 
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Jason Reid
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Drew1365 wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Regardless of your opinion of Hillary Clinton or her record, one has to admit she is an expert politician.


No. She's a horrible politician. She just has an excellent propaganda ministry propping her up.


Any propping up she's actually getting is likely courtesy of your own dipshit candidate.
 
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mightygodking wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
No. She's a horrible politician. She just has an excellent propaganda ministry propping her up.


Drew

what's it like being a lifelong mediocrity, desperate to tear down people clearly more talented than you at pretty much everything so you can pretend you're slightly above average as a person

i'm genuinely curious, if you can take the time out of your made-up pity church job to answer the question i'd appreciate it


Drewber is the typical Wisconsin yokel planted firmly in GOP Milwaukee suburbs. Everything is against him and time is running out.
 
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William Boykin
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jeremycobert wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
She has Donald bent over a chair, rogering him with Melania's strap on.

I thought referring to sexual violence towards women was offensive ?

[q="darthhugo"]I would call that a master politician.


You think Trump is a great politician ? She is beating a guy who is an idiot of a politician. She happens to be catching the GOP at the right time as it is in transition from the Bush era neo-con hacks into something different. At some point in the next 10 years, the pendulum will swing back and I assume the GOP will look much different then it did. Trump is just the first to appeal to the dis satisfaction of the people within the GOP.

The big question is, will Trump take down the entire GOP with him.


Jeremy's got a point here. Beating Trump isn't the world's biggest goddamn bar here. Shit, most of the GOP candidates were terrible also- I mean, Jeb! ??? Rubio flip flopping on Immigration? And don't get me started on Ben Carson.... Sure Trump was able to beat them, but all of the GOP candidates in the primary were terribly flawed- either they were just not very good politicians/candidates (Carson, Fiorina), they had taken positions that were political poison to the "Fuck the Establishment" attitude of the GOP base (Kaisich, Rubio, Christie), or both. (Jeb and Cruz. I mean, seriously- how do you waste THAT MUCH MONEY for so few votes, Jeb? And Ted? You're not nearly as smart and Machiavellian as you think you are.....)

So yah, the bar this year for Hilary was going to be goddamn low, unless by a weird miracle someone like Rubio or Kaisich (or Romney??) had become the candidate. Mitt made some bad unforced errors in 2012, but NOTHING this bad.

Hilary isn't a genius- in some ways, I think she's a bit like Cruz: As a candidate, I think that her and her team think they're way more clever than they really are. I mean, shit- they STILL don't have a good two minute answer to the email controversy; every time she's asked about it she rambles on and on about it. And this crap over her campaign getting advance notice about a town hall question or (maybe) having a soft ball thrown to them by a young girl at a rally- if true, its just more proof of the campaign trying to be too clever and not focusing on the basics. Its like her 'Trumped Up Trickle Down' line from the first debate- not nearly as witty or smart as she clearly thought it was.

Don't get me wrong- I far, far FAR prefer the through of Hilary in the office over Trump. But let's not make Hilary into the reincarnation of Abraham Lincoln.

Darilian
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Darilian wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
She has Donald bent over a chair, rogering him with Melania's strap on.

I thought referring to sexual violence towards women was offensive ?

[q="darthhugo"]I would call that a master politician.


You think Trump is a great politician ? She is beating a guy who is an idiot of a politician. She happens to be catching the GOP at the right time as it is in transition from the Bush era neo-con hacks into something different. At some point in the next 10 years, the pendulum will swing back and I assume the GOP will look much different then it did. Trump is just the first to appeal to the dis satisfaction of the people within the GOP.

The big question is, will Trump take down the entire GOP with him.


Jeremy's got a point here. Beating Trump isn't the world's biggest goddamn bar here. Shit, most of the GOP candidates were terrible also- I mean, Jeb! ??? Rubio flip flopping on Immigration? And don't get me started on Ben Carson.... Sure Trump was able to beat them, but all of the GOP candidates in the primary were terribly flawed- either they were just not very good politicians/candidates (Carson, Fiorina), they had taken positions that were political poison to the "Fuck the Establishment" attitude of the GOP base (Kaisich, Rubio, Christie), or both. (Jeb and Cruz. I mean, seriously- how do you waste THAT MUCH MONEY for so few votes, Jeb? And Ted? You're not nearly as smart and Machiavellian as you think you are.....)

So yah, the bar this year for Hilary was going to be goddamn low, unless by a weird miracle someone like Rubio or Kaisich (or Romney??) had become the candidate. Mitt made some bad unforced errors in 2012, but NOTHING this bad.

Hilary isn't a genius- in some ways, I think she's a bit like Cruz: As a candidate, I think that her and her team think they're way more clever than they really are. I mean, shit- they STILL don't have a good two minute answer to the email controversy; every time she's asked about it she rambles on and on about it. And this crap over her campaign getting advance notice about a town hall question or (maybe) having a soft ball thrown to them by a young girl at a rally- if true, its just more proof of the campaign trying to be too clever and not focusing on the basics. Its like her 'Trumped Up Trickle Down' line from the first debate- not nearly as witty or smart as she clearly thought it was.

Don't get me wrong- I far, far FAR prefer the through of Hilary in the office over Trump. But let's not make Hilary into the reincarnation of Abraham Lincoln.

Darilian


Being a master politician does include the skill that let's your opponent dose, light, and immolate themselves.

Just because a team doesn't score a lot of points, but holds the opponent to less, doesn't mean they didn't beat the living fuck out of them.
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Robert Wesley
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remorseless1 wrote:
This really is the most interesting, hilarious, amazing election of my lifetime, and that includes a county commissioner race where one candidate accused the other of having sex with pigs, only to have dead pigs show up on his driveway.
gulp ~ewwww! Did he have them "examined" for 'porking' by other than another of their 'species'?
whistle ~"Leave`em 'Death-squealing' from the 'unfeeling'!"
 
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Josh
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Drew1365 wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Regardless of your opinion of Hillary Clinton or her record, one has to admit she is an expert politician.


No. She's a horrible politician. She just has an excellent propaganda ministry propping her up.

If she didn't have the entire media/entertainment industry shilling for her along with the DOJ and FBI refusing to apply the law to her, she'd never have made it this far.


Don't forget the Lizard people, without them she'd be nowhere amirite?
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Josh
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Darilian wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
She has Donald bent over a chair, rogering him with Melania's strap on.

I thought referring to sexual violence towards women was offensive ?

[q="darthhugo"]I would call that a master politician.


You think Trump is a great politician ? She is beating a guy who is an idiot of a politician. She happens to be catching the GOP at the right time as it is in transition from the Bush era neo-con hacks into something different. At some point in the next 10 years, the pendulum will swing back and I assume the GOP will look much different then it did. Trump is just the first to appeal to the dis satisfaction of the people within the GOP.

The big question is, will Trump take down the entire GOP with him.


Jeremy's got a point here. Beating Trump isn't the world's biggest goddamn bar here. Shit, most of the GOP candidates were terrible also- I mean, Jeb! ??? Rubio flip flopping on Immigration? And don't get me started on Ben Carson.... Sure Trump was able to beat them, but all of the GOP candidates in the primary were terribly flawed- either they were just not very good politicians/candidates (Carson, Fiorina), they had taken positions that were political poison to the "Fuck the Establishment" attitude of the GOP base (Kaisich, Rubio, Christie), or both. (Jeb and Cruz. I mean, seriously- how do you waste THAT MUCH MONEY for so few votes, Jeb? And Ted? You're not nearly as smart and Machiavellian as you think you are.....)

So yah, the bar this year for Hilary was going to be goddamn low, unless by a weird miracle someone like Rubio or Kaisich (or Romney??) had become the candidate. Mitt made some bad unforced errors in 2012, but NOTHING this bad.

Hilary isn't a genius- in some ways, I think she's a bit like Cruz: As a candidate, I think that her and her team think they're way more clever than they really are. I mean, shit- they STILL don't have a good two minute answer to the email controversy; every time she's asked about it she rambles on and on about it. And this crap over her campaign getting advance notice about a town hall question or (maybe) having a soft ball thrown to them by a young girl at a rally- if true, its just more proof of the campaign trying to be too clever and not focusing on the basics. Its like her 'Trumped Up Trickle Down' line from the first debate- not nearly as witty or smart as she clearly thought it was.

Don't get me wrong- I far, far FAR prefer the through of Hilary in the office over Trump. But let's not make Hilary into the reincarnation of Abraham Lincoln.

Darilian


Hillary's running a low-profile campaign because it works against Trump. The fact he's letting her, and not able to put up any kind of offense doesn't take away from that.

The fact that she's still here, on the verge of becoming president when was investigated in the 90's, lost a bid in 2008, and has been subject to investigation after investigation since then, it impressive in and of itself. Any so-so politician would be dead in the water without friends, support, or a chance at office much less the highest office.
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William Boykin
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darthhugo wrote:


Being a master politician does include the skill that let's your opponent dose, light, and immolate themselves.

Just because a team doesn't score a lot of points, but holds the opponent to less, doesn't mean they didn't beat the living fuck out of them.


I think she's a much better politician- ie, behind the scenes, with no cameras, actually exercising power- than as a candidate. You know, kissing babies, making connections with people, giving speeches that move people- you know the stuff you gotta do to get yourself into the position of power.

And the two skill sets are not the same. Very different indeed.

I mean, shit, I should know. Governor Rick Perry was as sharp a Governor the State of Texas has ever seen. I mean, he actually made the office of Governor actually IMPORTANT- and became the most important politician in the state. (Usually its the Lt. Governor, who is the head of Assembly, or its the Railroad Commissioner, who decides oil policy.) But Perry was masterful at using the soft power of the Governor's Mansion to dominate the political landscape here.

However, give him anything remotely close to a contested election, and his faults become MANIFESTLY clear. He's AWFUL at giving anything but a prepared speech, get's tongue tied in interviews- just terrible.

Hilary is the Democrats Rick Perry- a great politician, but a mediocre candidate. Her saving grace this cycle was to be up against a totally unprepared novice who refused to take ANY advice from people who know how elections actually work.

Darilian
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"The big question is, will Trump take down the entire GOP with him."

Theres always hope.
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Frank F
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