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Subject: Who is Diemension Games? rss

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Anyone know who DG are? I'm not finding much information on their home page. The only names on the Home Page are the "concept artist, illustrators, and graphic designers". My searches on the Contact Name, Yichuan Wang, find hits that I'm not sure are for the Yichuan Wang for this project. (Try "Yichuan Wang diemension games" and let me know if you find anything.) 李倩 is listed as a collaborator and is located in Beijing China, but I wasn't sure how and if searching for her information was useful.

Their FB page has 12K likes, although they've run some FB contests to publicize the KS. A search for "Deep Madness" finds posts on US and ES forums, since July.

Quote:
Deep Madness is made by Diemension Games, a board game designing and publishing company based in California, US. We have offices in Los Angeles and Beijing. Our LA office mainly focuses on designing and publishing, while the Beijing office manages manufacturing and production. We are passionate about making high quality board games we love and you will enjoy. We are inspired to be a shining brand in the board game industry. Deep Madness is just a beginning.


From previous KS, designers are not a reliable indication of project fulfillment. It's good that they chose Ludo Fact, which CMON uses, but Ludo Fact is only the manufacturer. I'd like to know the project manager.

Quote:
The team behind Deep Madness includes the concept artist, illustrators, and graphic designers like Chang Yuan, Nicotine and DRock Art Studio, Stefan Kopiński, Scott Nicely etc, and sculpture artists Roberto Chaudon, Long C, Gael Goumon, Dennis Zarnowski from Savage Forged Minis, Gautier Giroud, Lux Thantor from Lux Thantor Miniatures, Olivier Bouchet. They are the best in the industry from across the globe in France, UK, US, China, Mexico, and Germany. A huge thanks to all of them for taking Deep Madness from dream to reality.

We have been working closely with Ludo Fact in our Beijing office. They will be our manufacturer. Diemension Games collaborates with the best game manufacturers in the world to ensure the best of the quality for our games.


Roger Ho, the game designer, has posted only four threads on BGG, all of them Deep Madness. He has entered his game collection onto BGG. I've sent him a PM asking him to respond to this thread.
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/browse/boardgame/0?username...

Here's the user account of the person who's been uploading images:
https://boardgamegeek.com/user/qianmuzi0932
EDIT: Her Baidu page: http://xingqu.baidu.com/home/main?un=qianmuzi0932&fr=home
EDIT: She's the collaborator on the project: https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/1404651642/about
EDIT: I've also asked her to reply to this thread.

China does have a boardgame market that doesn't need international exposure, so Diemension Game could be a company that has experience making boardgames for other companies, and is now striking on its own. But I'd like some more information before pledging $100+.

EDIT: Thanks to askal on Dakka for this search. Shows that DG was incorporated in CA back in May: https://www.californiaexplore.com/company/03912051/diemensio...
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Got a response on FB:
Quote:

Deep Madness Yichuan Wang and 李倩(Cherry Li) are both our team members indeed, working in LA and Beijing seperatly. They are in charge of the operational jobs, not as famous as the artists and sculptors. So there is few information about them. BTW Ludo Fact will be our producing partner for this project. And our Beijing Office is keeping up closely.


I've asked for their previous project management experience.
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Here's Cherry Li's FB page. The pic matches that of the Collaborator on the Deep Madness project. You can see some DM pics there. No work experience is listed, and education is "Studied 汉语言文学 at China University of Mining and Technology". 汉语言文学 translates to Chinese Language and Literature (?). Still not much information to make a decision.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100005134787937
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From the KS comments:


have you guys worked on any other games before striking out on your own?
Any previous game design experience?

We haven't TBH. And we are learning from other experienced big companies, like CMON. We shared our creations with the extraordinary illustrators, sculptors, and designers all around the globe and received their enthusiastic feedback, and that is how Deep Madness is born. Now we have confirmed our manufacturer, Ludo Fact, they are great at miniature board game manufacture.
The designer of Deep Madness is Roger Ho, who has designed tabletop games since 2013. Deep Madness might be the first published work of his.
Although Diemension Games is a young company, we know what gamers want, because we are all gamers, backers, and dreamers. Please give us a chance to prove ourselves and make our dreams come true.
Thank you for all your support!
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Randolph Bookman
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So this is Dead Space the board game.
 
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Maglok posted this comment on the Reaper forums:

Quote:
Yeah... these guys are seriously dodging the question. They reply to comments that are not questions about 'why will this succeed as a first time publisher', but ignore the ones about them being a first time publisher, including my personal message. I am totally out on this one.

Unfortunate, because I love the miniatures.

I'd say buyers beware, they have had quite some time to form a response to the question, yet they do not cover it. Not even a 'we are forming a reply'.


http://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/71100-deep-madn...
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Haven't they already answered the question in an above post? And doesn't the KS page list all the people involved? What else are you expecting them to provide?
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I'm pretty much using this thread to compile any information we have about the staff managing the project, even if we already have some sort of answer. They *have* listed the artists, designer, sculptors, and manufacturer, but these are not the people responsible for delivering the game, staying within budget, or otherwise fulfilling the KS. While they have listed the *names* of those of operations (Yichuan Wang and 李倩(Cherry Li)) Diemensional Games have not told us their *experience* in managing a project.

What I *want* to know is any information about the project managers that can help me make an informed decision. So far, we don't have that. Why, for example, were the project managers selected for this project? What are their qualifications? While they do not have game publication experience, do they have any other project management skills that are nonetheless applicable?

IMO, When you back a KS, you should do so after researching the creator as much as possible, and have enough information to properly assess risk. If the company does not have a track record of delivering product, you must then look at the staff members and determine their experience. While we have an answer that the company does not have game publication experience, we don't have an answer that the staff can or cannot fulfill this KS. I think it is *much* better to have complete information, than to have questions remain and make a speculation.

When researching Monolith for the Conan KS, I did exactly this. In the Conan KS, they mention Bombyx, so I did a search and found out the publishing experience of this company. I found out one of the staff by searching on the BGG user who uploaded Conan pictures, and found out he had published Tokaido and other games with plastic injection. The project still had risk (including rules translation from a non-domestic game company), but I was pretty much okay with the research I had done. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find this level of experience with the Yichuan Wang and 李倩(Cherry Li) of Diemensional Games. We don't know if they can, or cannot, deliver this game as shown in the KS. Of course, if anyone does find such information, please add it to this thread so we can continue to gather this information in one place.
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Jon H.
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Great thread this sort of situation and amount of things in it give me pause even though I'd love to back.
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If you look on CMON's Rise of Moloch FB page, Thomas Tobias Conrad, on December 5th, asked a question and Deep Madness replied: "Deep Madness We also want to make multi language versions for the game. But for now, keep the lowest price for the backers should be our priority and making multi versions could cost extra money. we will probably get there in the future."

So it looks like Diemensional Games learned more from CMON than just copying their campaign style. I've asked Deep Madness for more info about their connection to CMON. Too bad we're getting a better idea of their relationship after the KS, but, unfortunately, it's not the first KS I've seen that has done this.

EDIT: Over a week later, and no response.

https://www.facebook.com/WorldOfSmog/
 
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This looks kind of shady. Campaign looked a lot like CMON, so is this just CMON under a disguise? There seems to be at least same people responsible for facebook pages.
 
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juham wrote:
This looks kind of shady. Campaign looked a lot like CMON, so is this just CMON under a disguise? There seems to be at least same people responsible for facebook pages.

What would be the point? Surely if this had the CMON name attached to it, it would have done $3M+ instead of $1.4M.
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I appreciate your time and your diligence to researching this topic. I am always leary backing someone that has little-to-no experience with KS and with board game design. And while, like you, I have a hard time shelling out $100+ for something that is still an unknown, I also want to help others get off the ground into something that could be pretty special.

I saw a Geeklist a while back from Kevin Shaud (My Kickstarter Story) and it got me thinking about that when I try to ultimately decide whether I back or not. Some Kickstarters I know I want to have no questions asked (see Kingdom Death: Monster). Others though, it comes to mechanics, theme, frequency of style appearing in my collection, etc. and I added Kevin's Backer/Non-backer Regret into that. Deep Madness instantly feel into me regretting not backing it or having the potential to regret backing it ... there was no middle ground for me on that.

When I look at the games on the list that he, others, and myself regret not backing, there are some great games there. I used that to say, "Hey, if this turns out great, I'm going to kick myself and pay through the nose later." For that, I took the gamble and hope it turns out awesome. Where people on the fence should draw the line is add-ons. I am backing the core game + stretch goals ... while the other expansions may be nice, pay a little more for those later if you really like the game.
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I hope the publisher contacted Micheal Crichton, or who ever owns the rights to "Sphere". I could see this getting caught up in a intellectual property rights dispute with how much money the Kickstarter made.
 
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Robert Smithwick
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roscoetheviking wrote:
I hope the publisher contacted Micheal Crichton, or who ever owns the rights to "Sphere". I could see this getting caught up in a intellectual property rights dispute with how much money the Kickstarter made.


I'd wager it is far enough away from that storyline to not have any worries. Between the ship-versus-mining facility off the get go it would be hard to prove copyright or IP infringement. Thank you for mentioning that book again though ... I need to go back and read it!
 
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roscoetheviking wrote:
I hope the publisher contacted Micheal Crichton, or who ever owns the rights to "Sphere". I could see this getting caught up in a intellectual property rights dispute with how much money the Kickstarter made.


Given crichton is dead, whoever is in charge of his estate would be more appropriate, if its necessary at all.
 
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Jack
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Yeah, I'd say that owning the rights to Sphere doesn't give you unilateral rights to all undersea ocean mining stories, games, etc.
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senorcoo wrote:
Yeah, I'd say that owning the rights to Sphere doesn't give you unilateral rights to all undersea ocean mining stories, games, etc.


And Sphere isn't even ocean mining ... from that respect, wouldn't they have more of an IP right to go after the movie "Abyss" first? That is probably closer to the source material.
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Jack
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Robert, Ah, you're right, I was confusing the two. I enjoyed Abyss.
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From the kickstarter:
"In a dark and claustrophobic deep sea mining facility, the uncovering of a mysterious “Sphere” pulls those around it into a spiral of madness. The fears hidden deep down in the core of the human mind is amplified and transformed into horrifying monsters from other dimensions, torturing the mind, body and soul. Only those with extraordinary will and conviction can escape its devastating grasp."

If you replace deep sea mining facility with deep sea habitat for UFO investigation it's exactly the same story.
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The setting and theme are very similar, but how is the story remotely the same? If anything, Deep Madness borrows from Lovecraft, which I don't think the designers would dispute. So was The Sphere a Lovecraft knockoff?
 
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Apart from the setting being almost identical, it's the sphere that turns stuff from the subconscious of the human mind into real horrors that is the main similarity. What those horrors are is relative. Changing the monsters from giant squid, bizarre sea creatures, and rogue computers to lovecraftian monsters isn't really a huge leap. Also, "Sphere" was more of a knock-off of the 1950's movie "Forbidden Planet".
 
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