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Call of Cthulhu: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Responses during story resolution rss

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Dennis
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I think I got it, but just to make sure.

Let's take Despair as an example: http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/CoC/CoCCards.html/_/core...
"Response: After you win an icon struggle by at least 2 icons, choose a character without any Attachment cards on it. Return that character to its owner's hand."

Responses can't be triggered during story resolution, but are instead delayed until the resolution is over, right?
So I can't play Despair after winning a terror struggle by 2 icons to remove a character from the resolution. The chosen character is only returned to hand after the current story is done, so no way to influence icon math with that, right?
 
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Damon Baume
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That's correct. While Disrupts and Forced Responses can be played during the resolution of a Story, Responses cannot and can only be played once all Stories have been resolved.
 
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Tragic TheBlathering
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I recently wrote a big blub on this for a mate in the CoC-Online League

TragicTheBlathering wrote:

ammms wrote:
I got a few questions about Professor Nathaniel Peaslee.


Story Resolution is actually a little more tricky than it looks on a intuitive level. I sometimes get confused by this myself, so I hope this is all correct!!

One big problem is that "skill resolution" rules are obfuscated in strange places...

The basic timing chart just shows the Icon Struggles... no Skill Struggle

BUT....

4.2 FAQ wrote:

Q: In the Detailed Turn Sequence chart on P.13 of the core set rulebook, there is no mention of step “5. Determine Success”. Is this step also in the same green box with the icon struggles inthe Turn Sequence chart?

The chart on page 13 is intended to show the breaking up of game and player actions while the written section starting with page 8 is the
turn sequence which seeks to give the information on how to play/resolve
each phase and subsections of a phase. On page nine there is a detailed
breakdown for Story Card.

On page 10 that section reads, “Determine Success.” This shows that
determining success is part of resolving the story card, so would be included within that green box as resolving the struggles.


So that is solved. The Skill Test occurs in the same timing window as the Struggles. This is often a stumbling point for people, myself included.

All story resolutions occur in the same timing window. This means that only DISRUPT and FORCED RESPONSE can trigger during icon resolution AND story card resolution.

4.2 FAQ wrote:
(3.2) Resolving Stories

Resolving struggles and determining success at all three story cards happens all within the same “green box” on the timing flowchart. Thus, no Action or Response effects can be triggered between one story’s resolution and the beginning of the next story’s resolution. The only effects players can choose to trigger are Disrupts, however Forced Response effects that apply to the situation must trigger automatically.


What this means is that not only are there no action windows between individual icon struggles, there are no action windows between individual story resolutions either, all three story cards and any conspiracy cards in play resolve completely "all at once" so to speak.

The last player action widow happens after the defender commits to stories and before struggle resolution starts on all stories. The next action window is after the response window to what goes on in the story resolutions. This response window btw is when the Professor triggers.

Another trip up here is that all characters commit in a single timing window. So if you as the attacker or defender commit 5 characters, 1 to two stories 3 to one story, they all commit at the same time. If makes no difference which card you move to the stories first.

Also, ALL story struggles always resolve even if there is no defender. For an attacker to win a struggle he needs to be +1 icon. So in a 0/0 push the icon struggle is counted as NOT WON. Also in the case of a 0/0 push, fast has no effect. So for example if you have a Arcane symbol you still untap, as you still win that struggle.

When doing the skill struggle at the end of the story sequence, if the defending player has ZERO skill at the story, then the story is considered undefended BUT the attacker also needs at least 1 skill to win this struggle as well.

Also, the INVESTIGATION struggle that places a success token resolves for both defender and attacker. So even if you are a defender, if you win this struggle, you place a token.

So...

• You as the attacker gain a success for going to a story unopposed (this includes facing a defender with a total of Zero skill), assuming you have at least 1 skill total yourself.

• Either the attacker or the defender gains a success for winning the Investigation Struggle

• You as the attacker gain a success for winning the Skill Struggle, assuming you have at least 1 skill and are +1 skill over the opponent.

ammms wrote:
1. If Professor Nathaniel Peaslee enters the discard pile after resolving a combat struggle during the story phase, I remember reading somewhere that I have to go on resolving all committed stories before triggering the Response ability of Professor Nathaniel Peaslee, as there are no action windows during the stories resolution, am I correct? That means he can help to resurrect several dead characters committed to different stories in a turn?


So... what dose all that crazy mean?

Well... Professor Nathaniel Peaslee's effect is a "response". This dose NOT interrupt the story resolution as only Disrupt and Forced Response is fast enough.

What dose happen is that after all the stories and conspiracy cards in play resolve completely, then any responses that triggered during all that time can then resolve.

So if the Professor is killed at story 1, he goes into the discard pile. Then after story 2, 3 and any Conspiracies in play finish resolving and the entire story sequence is done, then the Professor now responds, after all responses occur, then there is the action phase.

Also, probably worth noting that if there are a bunch of responses triggered during the story resolution, then the "Simultaneous Effects" rules kick in to handle it.

4.2 FAQ wrote:
(1.7) Simultaneous Effects When card effects, passive abilities, or forced responses would resolve simultaneously, all cards that are affected resolve in the order determined by the active player, one at a time. The player must fully resolve each effect before the next effect takes place.


So even if there are responses from BOTH players triggered, the active player is the only one that chooses the resolution order.

ammms wrote:
2. Am I bringing back only my characters that enter my discard pile this turn? Or both players will bring back their characters after Professor Nathaniel Peaslee's Response ability is being triggered? Because the term "that entered a discard pile this phase" seems intriguing.


Yes, that is correct.. this will also bring your opponents as well as your own guys back into play who went into the discard pile that phase.

The Story Phase encompass committing, struggle resolution and story resolution.

So any characters that entered play that phase will come back, this INCLUDES the Professor himself.

It sounds bad, but in a human faction facing tons of hardcore monsters it isn't as bad as you think. You can commit, sneak in a story struggle susses, have some of the guys killed and then have them all back on the table and untapped ready to commit and sneak more successes in the next turn.






I hope that is all correct! story resolution is by far the most convoluted part of the game.
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Dennis
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Wow, that's a detailed response. laugh

Reading through all that, I did most of it correctly, but there's one thing stumping me:
Quote:
"Another trip up here is that all characters commit in a single timing window. So if you as the attacker or defender commit 5 characters, 1 to two stories 3 to one story, they all commit at the same time. If makes no difference which card you move to the stories first. So "Ravager from the Deep" will NEVER hit your own guys when you commit. (excluding card effects that commit you out of order like Y'olganaic"

I get (and played) that all characters for a given player are committed simultaneously. I understand that to mean that "Ravager from the Deep" will ALWAYS hit all your own guys committed to the same story, though. By the time his forced response fires, all other characters in fact are already commited, so are targets.
Am I getting that wrong?
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Tragic TheBlathering
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RindFisch wrote:
Wow, that's a detailed response. laugh


hehe, well I wrote it out for a mate asking a similar question in the guild I am in for playing CoC Online. So you are just lucky I guess : )

RindFisch wrote:
Reading through all that, I did most of it correctly, but there's one thing stumping me:
Quote:
"Another trip up here is that all characters commit in a single timing window. So if you as the attacker or defender commit 5 characters, 1 to two stories 3 to one story, they all commit at the same time. If makes no difference which card you move to the stories first. So "Ravager from the Deep" will NEVER hit your own guys when you commit. (excluding card effects that commit you out of order like Y'olganaic"

I get (and played) that all characters for a given player are committed simultaneously. I understand that to mean that "Ravager from the Deep" will ALWAYS hit all your own guys committed to the same story, though. By the time his forced response fires, all other characters in fact are already commited, so are targets.
Am I getting that wrong?


The natural intuitive way to commit to stories is for each character to move one at a time.. Many players, especially those coming from magic think like this I have found make this mistake, so I always mention it when talking about stories.

Ravager wounds everyone committed to the story when he commits. The amount of times I have seen new players push him up to a story first thinking that he he has arrived "before" their other guys did.

What happens is that ALL your characters move in a single "commit".. all your character cards leave your play area and arrive at all the stories at the same instant.

This seams trivial but there are other cards that this can trip up and understanding it teaches a fundamental thing about how LCGs work and how they do NOT have a "stack" like in MTG.

Also, to be clear....

Ravager DOSE NOT hit himself but DOSE hit all the committed characters that commit with him as well as any that where already committed.

I screwed up that post, I'll edit it to fix. Been a while, but I was thinking of another card and got them confused...

• So when Ravager commits, any that commit with him to the same story will be wounded.
• The trigger will be resolved BEFORE the defender commits, so if you send him in as the active player, you will not wound the defender.
• If you send him in as a defender, as the attacker is already committed, it will wound all the active players guys and any you commit with him
• Remember he dose no wound himself.
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Dennis
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Ok, then I got it all right. I was scared there for a minute.
Thanks for the detailed answer, even if it technically wasn't for me. laugh
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