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Subject: A humorously serious piece on "The Wall". rss

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Mac Mcleod
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jeremy cobert
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This video has already been debunked.



My favorite bit from Adam the Hipster Who’s Often Kind of Right but Not Really? Building a wall would keep illegal immigrants in the USA. LOL. So we shouldn’t build a wall in case those leeches want to vamonos back to Mexico? Got it! Because migrants fleeing the Estados Unitos is a major problemo. I saw a segment about it on CNN, pretty sure.
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J
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Josh
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I didn't feel like watching the whole thing on my phone, but he's overststing the 60% by assuming the wall would be 100% effective (it won't) and no one has ever said it wouldn't have some sort of imoact, just that it is not cost effective and it is unAmerican.

Also, wearing a shirt thst says 'not gay' on it is so bro that bro bro brobro bro brobro.
 
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Shawn Fox
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While pointing out that net immigration from Mexico has been negative the last few years might be true (why specifically Mexico and not all of Latin America?), that doesn't mean the trends won't change at some point in the future. If the economy starts to go sour south of the border you can bet that the trend will increase again. I just don't think that it is a valid argument to make.
 
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Welcome Rolling Stones
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jeremycobert wrote:
This video has already been debunked.


Please demonstrate the methods in which the wall would be built through mountains and canyons. Please also demonstrate how someone could not simply walk around the wall at either end since the wall is not a perimeter.
 
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Shawn Fox
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49xjohn wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
This video has already been debunked.


Please demonstrate the methods in which the wall would be built through mountains and canyons. Please also demonstrate how someone could not simply walk around the wall where at either end since the wall is not a perimeter.


Too easy, please try again...



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J
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sfox wrote:
why specifically Mexico and not all of Latin America?

Because Trump talks about Mexicans when ranting about The Wall and stuff
 
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Shawn Fox
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Just to be clear, I think building a wall on the US-Mexico border is a stupid idea. That doesn't mean that I believe it is impossible or that we don't need to do a better job of preventing illegal immigration in the future.
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Hi Shawn, I just walked around your wall.
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Shawn Fox
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49xjohn wrote:

Hi Shawn, I just walked around your wall.

Swam you mean?
 
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sfox wrote:
49xjohn wrote:

Hi Shawn, I just walked around your wall.

Swam you mean?


Lol. I was on deck with the civilized people.
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J
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sfox wrote:
Just to be clear, I think building a wall on the US-Mexico border is a stupid idea. That doesn't mean that I believe it is impossible or that we don't need to do a better job of preventing illegal immigration in the future.

Of course it's not impossible. We already have hundreds of miles of border wall. The bigger question is the ROI on extending what we already have.

Your Great Wall pics are a good example of that: if we were trying to fend off a horde of mounted Mongol raiders, then the answer might be yes. Fortunately that's not the issue.
 
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Josh
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jmilum wrote:
sfox wrote:
Just to be clear, I think building a wall on the US-Mexico border is a stupid idea. That doesn't mean that I believe it is impossible or that we don't need to do a better job of preventing illegal immigration in the future.

Of course it's not impossible. We already have hundreds of miles of border wall. The bigger question is the ROI on extending what we already have.

Your Great Wall pics are a good example of that: if we were trying to fend off a horde of mounted Mongol raiders, then the answer might be yes. Fortunately that's not the issue.


Ask China how well that worked for them.
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jeremy cobert
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One of the other things that rarely get discussed who who illegal immigration hurts and helps.

Obviously the GOP benefits are to their large business owners who want cheap unskilled labor.

Unfortunately the Democrats benefit from that as well, but they also benefit in a few more ways.

1. cheap unskilled labor form Mexico drives young black men out of jobs and onto welfare roles creating dependent voters.

2. unskilled illegals are more likely to be poor and need more government services and aid creating children who are dependent and on the dole. creating more future voters for the democrats.

3. Illegals are great candidates to pay for voter fraud initiatives.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/04/civil-rights-c...

So I dont look for either party to address this for some time.
 
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Shawn Fox
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jeremycobert wrote:
One of the other things that rarely get discussed who who illegal immigration hurts and helps.

Obviously the GOP benefits are to their large business owners who want cheap unskilled labor.

Unfortunately the Democrats benefit from that as well, but they also benefit in a few more ways.

1. cheap unskilled labor form Mexico drives young black men out of jobs and onto welfare roles creating dependent voters.

2. unskilled illegals are more likely to be poor and need more government services and aid creating children who are dependent and on the dole. creating more future voters for the democrats.

3. Illegals are great candidates to pay for voter fraud initiatives.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/04/civil-rights-c...

So I dont look for either party to address this for some time.


I don't know about all of your conspiracy theory nonsense, but anyone that believes the Democrats would be pushing for increased immigration if the immigrants voted for the republican party is full of shit.

Immigration is, without a doubt, a political issue. Ihe two main parties in the US are for/against immigration based almost entirely on how immigrants tend to vote, it has nothing to do with business interests or actually giving a shit about helping any of the immigrants. I'm not talking about individual voters, I'm talking about the political parties themselves. That is why the republicans favor H1B visas, since it is cheap labor, punishes a generally liberal voting block, and helps increase profits for a conservative voting block.
 
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Robert Wesley
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Re: A humorously serious piece on "The Wall" of DICKS ofCorporate Executives.
wow HEY! 'Crowder'-CROW-crude-crowd: "the M-O-R-E 'bread' you HAVE the LESS 'shit' you have too EAT!"
They should Build a HALL of decent paying 'Jobs' in them countries instead too KEEP them there then.
 
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Mac Mcleod
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jeremycobert wrote:
This video has already been debunked.



My favorite bit from Adam the Hipster Who’s Often Kind of Right but Not Really? Building a wall would keep illegal immigrants in the USA. LOL. So we shouldn’t build a wall in case those leeches want to vamonos back to Mexico? Got it! Because migrants fleeing the Estados Unitos is a major problemo. I saw a segment about it on CNN, pretty sure.


While I don't agree with all of the debunking video -- it's a very on topic counter video so I thumbed and tipped you! I hope we can return to dialogue / point&counterpoint / semi intelligent discussion after the election is over.
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Mac Mcleod
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sfox wrote:
49xjohn wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
This video has already been debunked.


Please demonstrate the methods in which the wall would be built through mountains and canyons. Please also demonstrate how someone could not simply walk around the wall where at either end since the wall is not a perimeter.


Too easy, please try again...





Tho it is pretty hard to imagine the cost of that wall today. It's amazing what you can do with virtual slave labor and actual slave labor.

Still, I think a wall could be built for under $8 billion and staffed and maintained for under $1 billion per year.

Photos of the current wall near tijuana do not look like the terrain is more torturous than the terrain the chinese wall went thru.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3563400/Try-building...

As long as we allow tourism to the states, I don't think you are going to significantly cut illegal immigration.

---

If you want to stop illegal immigration then you need a national photo id "legal to work in the united states" data base, a large inspection force (but much smaller than that needed to staff the wall), and stiff fines for businesses and individuals caught using illegal labor.

If you can't get a job, you won't come here or stay here.

Right now- it's so bad that restaurants openly have multiple employees with the same fake social security id number.

 
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Jorge Montero
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Ok, so since 60% of people cross by foot today, that means that a wall would help... if people are automatons that don't change their behavior.

If there's anything we can be sure about humans is that people change their behavior based on incentives. At work, we deal with credit card fraud. It's a game of cat and mouse. As we build more sophisticated ways of detecting some kinds of fraud, we gain a temporary respite before fraudsters find a newer way to get through our fraud detection algorithms. It's a constant fight, but it's a relatively cheap fight, so it's economical. With immigration, first we have to argue that immigration is bad (which it isn't). After we do that, we still have to find ways to spend less on border control than any of those imaginary immigration losses: Guarding a border, by itself, is no more useful than digging holes and them filling them up again. The increase in GDP that would have to come from less immigration is never going to come close to the costs of guarding a border like this, as mexicans can come in legally and overstay quite cheaply.

This is an area where the video is 100% true. Overstaying a visa is only problematic if you keep trying to cross the border a lot: It's far safer the less you cross, so instead of working in the US temporarily, walking would make it far more sensible to not just send a migrant worker over, but to bring in the entire family for a 'vacation' that lasts forever.

If for some inane reason you want to slow down illegal immigration, make punitive damages for employing an illegal a couple of orders of magnitude larger. It's much cheaper than a wall, it'd be self funding, and will be more effective. That said, good luck passing that and wanting to keep agriculture in the US though: The only crops that are economical without temporary Mexican farmhands are those that have high mechanization, and it's those very same crops that are getting cheaper every year.
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jeremy cobert
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maxo-texas wrote:
I hope we can return to dialogue / point&counterpoint / semi intelligent discussion after the election is over.


When did we have that ?

Also, I bet we will miss all the wall to wall Trump posts.
 
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Mac Mcleod
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jeremycobert wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
I hope we can return to dialogue / point&counterpoint / semi intelligent discussion after the election is over.


When did we have that ?

Also, I bet we will miss all the wall to wall Trump posts.


Pre-obama/McCain during the bush years it was much more civil and philosophical. There were often explicit conversations centered on classical philosophy that had nothing to do with poltics.

Sure it had issues- people were moderated or banned- but every thing slowly got worse after Obama was elected and then went crazy extremist after the obama/romney election.
 
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