$30.00
Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

7 Wonders Duel» Forums » General

Subject: Am I the only one having this problem? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
pg 13
msg tools
While I tremendously enjoy the artwork and general layout of the game (great for players who aren't very acquainted with boardgame culture), I feel like the game is lacking strategical depth. In fact, all choices you make are pretty much predetermined. After only two(!) games the only way to improve our strategies was calculating possibilities for face-down cards. The problem is: If you don't factor in the possibilities to reveal certain card types in age II and III (in particular military or progress), the game just becomes a rather sophisticated coin flip. Case in point was our first game being decided on a double 1blind-1revealed stack with 1blind military and the other 1blind non-military.

I commend 7W:Duel as a beginner-friendly spin on commitment management games, but it introduces too much variance with some mechanics, at least for my taste. Mechanics like the alternative symbol costs for buildings, that are meant to mitigate economical disadvantages and thereby leverage opposing commitment to resources to your own advantage, are way too reliant on blind luck. This variance-induced lack of commitment granularity in particular areas unduly limits the players' range and power of choice. Therefore, rewards for guidance of choice by strategy will also ultimately depend on blind luck. (Further exacerbated by the removal of 3 cards from the pool in each age.)

The game's theme and simplicity are fantastic, that's why I'm trying really hard to enjoy it. However, it seems like I'm failing, as I fail to see how my non-predetermined decisions can significantly impact the outcome of a match given the game's inherent randomness. Do we really always have to take this route to challenge the player's creativity?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick Teverbaugh
United States
Anderson
Indiana (IN)
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The game is quite a bit more tactical than strategic. It is OK to have a strategy that you want to win through science or through military or just by going for victory points. But tactics is what gets the job done. I don't understand why you aren't in love with all the decisions that need to be made each turn? There are most often multiple cards available to choose on your turn. Do you pick what you want or what you don't want your opponent to have? Are you wiling to pick a card that will make an unknown card available to your opponent? Is it time to discard for money? Is this the best time to build one of those wonders? I find much vartiety in gameplay choices every time I have played.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron Natera
United States
Des Moines
Iowa
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I never fell like my choices are scripted. (Hmmm... Maybe I'm just too dumb?) So a few thoughts:

The game is usually in a state where a player is presented with more than one card choice. Even in situations where they cannot afford a card, they must determine which card to discard, often thinking about what their opponent would want.

So from a design perspective, the issue becomes how 'deep' should that choice be? And related to that, is it a tactical or strategic one.

Some may disagree with me, but I believe this was created to be a fast, light, card game. When I play, my decisions are almost entirely tactical according to the present game state. (Long term strategic plans like a military or science victory are generally easy to counter.)

I agree with you when you say: "I fail to see how my non-predetermined decisions can significantly impact the outcome of a match given the game's inherent randomness." At the end of a match I can't point to a specific card or action taken that won or lost the match. At most I can say that I should have focused more in one area (color) or another. Perhaps it's just too light of a game for you? You might be looking for a heavier level of depth and not finding it. (It's a far cry from something like a CCG/LCG or Deckbuilder.)

I love the game, but certainly I respect that you might not.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
si Mon
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Mr.Natera, Making polite, informed and balance answers might break the internet. Please be more careful. If we can't insult each others by making ludicrous claims we won't have anymore motivation to read and write on forums
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron Natera
United States
Des Moines
Iowa
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You're right Moshimon! The OP is obviously brain damaged. Probably in the Fun-tal lobe!

(Just Kidding!)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shoosh shoo
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's probably just not your kind of game. Honestly if the game is not doing anything for you, get rid of it and get something that is going to satisfy you in all areas. I don't mean that to sound like a jerk, I simply mean there are so many games that come out every year, I don't see the point in buying a game which is good in some area but lacking in another. I believe there will always be something else that fits EXACTLY what I'm looking for, so why not get THAT game rather than something I'm not totally happy with?

WIth that being said, I don't think Duel offers a lot of depth in terms of strategy. It is light, fast paced, provides a lot of interesting decisions and a lot of tension which is why I love it. Essentially it is the same game every time you play, but each time I have played it I have felt the tension as I try to hinder my opponent while helping myself. I'm very curious to see how Pantheon and the future expansions will change this, but as it is, I think Duel is an excellent game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Derek Whaley
New Zealand
Christchurch
flag msg tools
Darius I – 73rd Great Khan of the Illustrius Barbarian Horde, Duque San Lorenzo, Marquis de Feltón, Chief of the Zayante, Baron von Whaleyland, Lord Kennedy
badge
Arrgh!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I really like the straight-forwardness of the game and also the tactical depth. I've played three games with one friend and I eventually won (we saw it coming a little ways out just counting cards) but the other two were close. But my partner has played this twice and just doesn't like it very much, which I find really unfortunate. She hasn't expressed precisely why she doesn't like it, but I think it is for the same reasons I do like it. To be fair, though, only a few games we agree on. I love Pandemic Legacy, but she doesn't like cooperative games – the idea of winning or losing together makes her feel less victorious or unable to blame the other players for her loss. Thus we mostly just play Carcassonne, Dominion, or a slew of worker-placement games, which gets boring after a while. 7 Wonders Duel was a great alternative, but once again it falls flat with her.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shoosh shoo
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Whaleyland wrote:
I really like the straight-forwardness of the game and also the tactical depth. I've played three games with one friend and I eventually won (we saw it coming a little ways out just counting cards) but the other two were close. But my partner has played this twice and just doesn't like it very much, which I find really unfortunate. She hasn't expressed precisely why she doesn't like it, but I think it is for the same reasons I do like it. To be fair, though, only a few games we agree on. I love Pandemic Legacy, but she doesn't like cooperative games – the idea of winning or losing together makes her feel less victorious or unable to blame the other players for her loss. Thus we mostly just play Carcassonne, Dominion, or a slew of worker-placement games, which gets boring after a while. 7 Wonders Duel was a great alternative, but once again it falls flat with her.



You should get Seasons and play it with her. It plays up to 4 but its an amazing 2 player game! It's a heavier game but easy to learn. The more you play it the more it opens up to you as you discover all the possibilities. Try it out on boardgamearena.com

Another great game is Race for the Galaxy. Has a bit of a learning curve for beginners. Again it plays 4 but is excellent for 2. Once you learn the symbology (which honestly is not that complex) you will really enjoy it. I got hooked. Again, try it on boardgamearena.com first
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Duke
United States
Wynne
Arkansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wow, what a word salad of high sounding blarney.

Please, play some other game (preferable one I don't follow.)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sebastian Zarzycki
Poland
Poznan
Wielkopolskie
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Play 18 more games and if the results are still 50/50, switch to another game. If someone is winning more, then clearly the game favors *something*.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
tom tom
United States
Springfield
Missouri
flag msg tools
mbmb
a beginner-friendly spin on commitment management games...variance-induced lack of commitment granularity in particular areas ...I fail to see how my non-predetermined decisions can significantly impact the outcome of a match given the game's inherent randomness...

My wife and I have over 100 plays of 7 Wonders Duel. We enjoy the artwork, the challenge of 3 completely different ways to win, and spending time together over a quick, exciting game. Try it a few more times, or you may miss out on one of the very best 2 person games available.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.