Recommend
8 
 Thumb up
 Hide
77 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: Why Trump's supposed locker room banter must be reviled and condemned rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
None of what this woman writes is in the least unusual nor surprising. That fact alone should be terrifying.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/jenn-mattern/welcome-to-the-w...
Jenn Mattern wrote:

Dear Straight White Men,

“Telling it like it is” seems to be something many of you prize highly right now. Some of you have gone on record saying you are delighted that one of our Presidential candidates is a real man’s man, not afraid to say whatever he likes. Some of you are unfazed by his “locker-room talk.” Some of you think “rape culture” is a meaningless phrase whipped up by histrionic women just to irritate you. Some of you doubt the concept of white privilege, and many of you bristle at the need for the Black Lives Matter movement, despite the fact that the sanctity of your white male life has never once been in question in what is the United States of America. Trump’s not helping you understand this, either: No matter how “annoyed” you are by this election, you (and he) are not victims of politics or circumstance. In fact, you are the single demographic he has yet to threaten or menace directly. The guy’s got his own back and yours—if no one else’s—and some of you really seem to appreciate being part of the Trump “tell it like it is” club.

Since many of you straight white men seem to enjoy Trump’s approach, I’ll tell it like it is, too—just for you. But first I’ll tell it like it was. And then I’ll tell it like it will always be, for me, a woman. Don’t get your boxer-briefs all in a wad. This is just some locker-room talk for you. You can handle that, right?

Welcome to the women’s locker room:

I was 11 when a nun at my Catholic school demanded that all the boys in the room raise their hands and promise they would never, ever, ever let any girl they knew get an abortion. Every little boy in that room raised his hand while the girls bowed their heads in shame that we did not understand and could not articulate. This was math class.

I was 13 when a new girl arrived from California. I heard she did things with her mouth to groups of my male classmates in the woods near the school. I thought badly of her and steered clear. It did not occur to me to doubt the veracity of this gossip, or wonder about the morality of my male classmates, who happily spread these rumors.

I was 14 when the husband of my mother’s best friend insisted on driving me home after I babysat his children. Once the car was in motion, he slid his hand up the inside of my thigh to the cuff of my shorts. I pressed myself against the car door and wondered if I should open it and jump out at 55 mph, into six lanes of northbound traffic, before his hand went any higher.

I was 16 when a boy laughed in my face, “Oops, I guess I slipped” after penetrating me without my consent. If you go by the biological definition, that was my first time. I was also 16 when he body-slammed me against a second-floor bannister and held me by my hips as I dangled headfirst over his stairs, taunting me that he could let go, if he wanted to, and watch my skull smash. He thought this was good fun.

I was 17 when a boy I did not know at a teen dance club pulled me down onto his lap and shoved his hand up my skirt, jamming his fingers into my vagina as I struggled to get away from him. We were surrounded by people, who watched the struggle but did nothing. Later I bled.

I was 17 when a boy from a nice Catholic college prep school took my head in his hands, held me down, and forced his penis into my mouth in a parked car. I was afraid of what would happen if I fought back. I had never heard of a girl refusing to do this. We girls—as far as I knew—had to do this, or there would be worse repercussions.

I was 17 when a strange man cut through our yard and scaled the side of our house so he could peer through my bedroom window and watch me getting changed for bed. “Beautiful body,” he hissed through my screen, his mouth and voice and unseen person two feet away from my naked body. I screamed and fell onto my bedroom floor and crawled nude into the hallway, clutching a bed sheet. My father and brother ran outside, where they found huge footprints in the mud. The police estimated size 13, size 14 men’s. The cops said there was nothing they could do, the man could have been watching me for a while, would probably still be watching. To this day, doctors and lovers alike are surprised by my inability to fall asleep at night without medication.

I was 18 when one of my college classmates shoved me against a wall outside and forced his hand into my pants, telling me he “knew I wanted it.” I did not. When a friend began dating him, I warned her. She stopped talking to me.

I was 19 when I told my first college boyfriend I had been date-raped multiple times. He recoiled and told me, “I feel like I’m trying to love a used Jenn.” I wound up comforting him as he cried and trying to assure him I was still good enough and pure enough for him. I felt the same dirty shame I’d felt at 11, and hadn’t yet understood.

I was 21 when a leering man crossed the street at midnight to approach me as I walked my dogs. The dogs were my voice that night, and barked menacingly at him until he crossed the street again and slid into the darkness. I could not speak; I had lost my voice and was trembling violently.
I was 22 when a college friend was kidnapped, raped, and brutally murdered—after her car broke down on a Midwest interstate in broad daylight. She had been traveling alone.

I was 39 when a good friend of the man I was dating told me (on a double date) that he couldn't stop picturing me with a ball gag in my mouth and how nice I would look bent over his kitchen table, or hog-tied. His wife and my date acted like this was perfectly normal dinner conversation. I asked him to stop talking to me. He continued an obscene litany of the things he wanted to do to me, even after the waitress delivered a plate of sweet potato fries for the table to share. I felt sick and left the table to go to the bathroom. The man followed me, then seized me from behind in the middle of the crowded bar. He groped my breasts and violently dry-humped me. When I fought him off—with no help from the bar patrons all around me—I told my date I was leaving and explained why. Despite having witnessed his friend’s revolting sexual threats all evening, my date doubted what I was saying. As we left the bar, my date sighed with great disappointment that I was going to make his friendship “awkward” if I persisted in my claims.

I am 46. I still cannot sleep on the first floor of a building. I cannot sleep next to a window. I cannot shower without the door locked. I look over my shoulder constantly wherever I go. I look under my car before I climb into it at night. I lock my car doors immediately upon entering the vehicle. I am deathly afraid of groups of teenage boys. I shudder when I have to walk through or by groups of men. I hold my breath as I pass men on running or hiking trails, then sprint for my life until they are far from sight, my heart pounding. I have recurring dreams in which I am being chased and assaulted. When I ask for help in these dreams, if I can find my voice in these dreams (sometimes I am mute there too from fear), no help will come. All around me there are dead eyes, observing me coolly, with no pity.
The dead eyes are set in white male faces.

I do not know how to teach my daughters how to feel safe, because I do not know how to feel safe. “Safe” is not a default mode for me. Ever since I have had breasts, I have felt unsafe. That is 36 years of feeling unsafe on a daily basis, if you like numbers.

The people who have sexually assaulted me or threatened me have all been—with the one unknown of the stalker in my bedroom window—straight white men. I have never encountered “a Mexican rapist.” I have never been assaulted in the ladies’ room at Target by a trans person. I have never been groped by a black man or a gay man (or a gay woman, for that matter).

Do you hear me? I am afraid of you. I am afraid of no one but you.

My story is remarkable for one reason alone: my story is unremarkable. My story is not unique, not in the slightest. Almost every woman I know has been sexually assaulted or raped or abused by a man in her lifetime. Please let that sink in, if you can. Almost every woman I know. How is this possible? This is possible because some men continue to 1) assault, rape and abuse women or 2) ignore the stories of women who have been assaulted, raped or abused or 3) refuse to speak out against men who assault, rape and abuse.
Many of the straight white men I watch on TV during this vile circus act of a political cycle are defending Trump in ways that defy logic and basic decency. I marvel at those who can shrug off Trump’s admission to sexual assault as typical male banter. In fact, I am not sure if this apologist approach is more demeaning to women, or the men who espouse it. Although this letter is for those straight white men, they will not read it. However, if you are a straight white man in the United States, and you are still reading this, I thank you. I’d like you to do more than read this, though: I’d like you to use your voice. I’d like you to amplify mine and those of the women all around me and those of the women across the globe. My “telling it like it is” is absolutely nothing compared to what some women have to say. Sexual violence is not a one-moment event for the one who survives it. It can’t be “acid-washed” or explained away. The act or acts of sexual abuse and sexual violence live on in the fear that coils around your spine, constricts your heart, and pollutes your dreams at night. This is also how it is.

Straight white men—those of you who realize that Donald Trump denigrated you, too, by welcoming you into his mythical and abhorrent locker room; those of you who are horrified that Donald Trump has insinuated that you will agree with him that boys will be boys; those of you who are repulsed by the concept that any suggested or actual sexual violence should be forgiven with a nod and a wink—I need you to speak. I need you to raise your voice, because no matter how loud I speak, no matter how loud any woman is speaking right now, straight white men are still dominating the discussion. So I need to you to do something—anything—because I am at a loss for how to be heard in a world where a man can admit on tape to “grabbing pussy” with no thought of consent and still be considered the champion of “regular guys.”

Surely a majority of straight white men cannot believe this is truly acceptable behavior for anyone—let alone a Presidential candidate. But now I don’t know, because on and on it goes, with no abatement. Straight white men who are still reading this, can I tell you something? I feel more unsafe than ever. Do you hear me? I feel more unsafe than ever.

If you speak, my straight white male friends, you will be heard. If that’s not privilege, I don't know what is. Allow yourself to be humbled by this privilege. Please be aware of this privilege, and use it well. Defy this disgusting “locker room” myth, and teach your sons to do the same. Challenge those who dismiss rape culture loudly and often. Because I can tell you, my voice is not being heard. The women I know are not being heard. My daughters are coming of age in a world full of men who leer and grope and objectify women without shame and without consequences.

Please have the courage to tell it like it is, for someone else. Because this is how it is for me and many, many other women. I hope you take my word for it this time. Donald Trump may be grabbing for my pussy, but your humanity is far more at risk.
34 
 Thumb up
3.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J
United States
Lexington
Kentucky
flag msg tools
admin
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chief Slovenly
United States
Burlington
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
@Moshe: thanks for this.

Trump's apologists and sycophants in RSP have a lot to answer for, but the biggest concession you'll get out of them is something like "we're not electing a Boy Scout, and Bill Clinton did worse".

When one is an insult to basic decency and the other is an insult to basic intelligence.

Then again, it's one of the last cards to play, from a campaign in its death throes, one step away from either bringing folding chairs to the last debate or calling Hillary a bitch on live TV, because that's "telling it like it is", instead of being the political equivalent of seeping herpes sores.

The GOP these days seems to want to play it both ways: rile up the base against liberals, the media and minorities, and feign surprise at just how low it's gotten.

They're going to fall victim to every red meat-throwing rabid huckster and complete booger-eating assclown from now until the sun goes red giant.

I just so happen to think there are good government ways out of this mess for them, but it's tough medicine that's completely foreign to the revolving door of today's modern publishing/Fox/Breitbart/lobbying/outrage mill GOP.
14 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wendell
United States
Yellow Springs
Ohio
flag msg tools
All the little chicks with crimson lips, go...
badge
Hey, get your stinking cursor off my face! I got nukes, you know.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I went to watch my nephew play in a soccer tournament today. His sister, my 11-year old niece, was also there. So were a lot of 10 and 12 year old girls, playing soccer.

I imagined how many of them Trump would leer at and say "I'll be dating* you in 10 years."

Sickening. Though not as sickening as imaging how many of the older girls and the women there today that Trump would have been pleased to land an unwanted surprise kiss upon, or to grab their asses, or to otherwise sexually assault them.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris R.
United States
Unspecified
Missouri
flag msg tools
admin
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
"...locker room banter must be reviled and condemned."

The criminialization of words?

There should be an exception to the First Amendment for something called "locker room banter"?

I know that one college recently decided shockingly to protect the First Amendment instead of giving in to political correctness.

I can't find the exact quote, but it was something like this reason.com quote from last year:

"Even if it were possible to measure emotional pain, and to decide at what point such pain should (pardon the term) trigger the censor's veto, it is not possible to protect everyone's feelings the way we can protect everyone's rights."

http://reason.com/archives/2015/03/18/the-death-of-free-spee...

...

Isn't there "supposed locker room banter" in rap music, rated-R movies, and throughout the Internet?

Who will be America's guardian of the naughty words?

If someone says something terrible on the job, then maybe they should be fired, suspended, or punished, but doesn't this happen already? If someone is touched inappropriately, that should be reported as soon as possible.

However, this search of every private video and e-mail for every political person is a bit much.

Everyone is proud of every private conversation that they have ever had?

"I can see 'em now, huddled there in the corner..., playing every record slower and slower... then suddenly,'There's a naughty word!'" -- Doctor Johnny Fever, WKRP

...

Hillary Campaign Vows To Destroy Opposition Website

http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/18/hillary-campaign-vows-to-d...

I don't know that that's exactly what she said, but there have certainly been attempts to limit free speech. Private companies like Twitter, Facebook, Google, and others like to get into the act too. Perhaps they would be willing to attack "supposed locker room banter"?

...

What was Justice Clarence Thomas' big crime supposedly saying the words "pubic hair on my Coke" and "Long Dong Silver"?

Fun game destroying a person's career and reputation...

As I said, everyone is proud of every private conversation that they have ever had?

Whose idea of "supposed locker room banter" to be "reviled and condemned"?

Republicans only?

If Bill Clinton or John Kennedy said or did something naughty, would this cause Democrats to abandon them? Of course not!

This is now to be the most important idea when voting -- above everything else? Well, it should be a factor, but most people have known that Trump has been crude for decades. Mrs. Clinton has been dishonest for over 40 years going back to since the Watergate, the cattle future scandal, and Whitewater from the 1970s. I think she's had her own crude language occasionally too.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jeremy cobert
United States
cedar rapids
Iowa
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm sure at some point in your life, you and your friend mentioned some woman (or man, cant judge) and one of you said " Wow, I would really like the chance to disappoint her (or him, cant judge) in bed".

The fake outrage on this topic is wildly amusing.

5 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Edwards
United Kingdom
London
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
sikeospi wrote:
"...locker room banter must be reviled and condemned."

The criminialization of words?

There should be an exception to the First Amendment for something called "locker room banter"?

I know that one college recently decided shockingly to protect the First Amendment instead of giving in to political correctness.

I can't find the exact quote, but it was something like this reason.com quote from last year:

"Even if it were possible to measure emotional pain, and to decide at what point such pain should (pardon the term) trigger the censor's veto, it is not possible to protect everyone's feelings the way we can protect everyone's rights."

http://reason.com/archives/2015/03/18/the-death-of-free-spee...

...

Isn't there "supposed locker room banter" in rap music, rated-R movies, and throughout the Internet?

Who will be America's guardian of the naughty words?

If someone says something terrible on the job, then maybe they should be fired, suspended, or punished, but doesn't this happen already? If someone is touched inappropriately, that should be reported as soon as possible.

However, this search of every private video and e-mail for every political person is a bit much.

Everyone is proud of every private conversation that they have ever had?

"I can see 'em now, huddled there in the corner..., playing every record slower and slower... then suddenly,'There's a naughty word!'" -- Doctor Johnny Fever, WKRP

...

Hillary Campaign Vows To Destroy Opposition Website

http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/18/hillary-campaign-vows-to-d...

I don't know that that's exactly what she said, but there have certainly been attempts to limit free speech. Private companies like Twitter, Facebook, Google, and others like to get into the act too. Perhaps they would be willing to attack "supposed locker room banter"?

...

What was Justice Clarence Thomas' big crime supposedly saying the words "pubic hair on my Coke" and "Long Dong Silver"?

Fun game destroying a person's career and reputation...

As I said, everyone is proud of every private conversation that they have ever had?

Whose idea of "supposed locker room banter" to be "reviled and condemned"?

Republicans only?

If Bill Clinton or John Kennedy said or did something naughty, would this cause Democrats to abandon them? Of course not!

This is now to be the most important idea when voting -- above everything else? Well, it should be a factor, but most people have known that Trump has been crude for decades. Mrs. Clinton has been dishonest for over 40 years going back to since the Watergate, the cattle future scandal, and Whitewater from the 1970s. I think she's had her own crude language occasionally too.


Condemning speech is free speech you terrible, terrible, terrible person.
15 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Stiles
United States
California
flag msg tools
badge
Shaman
Avatar
mbmbmb
jeremycobert wrote:
I'm sure at some point in your life, you and your friend mentioned some woman (or man, cant judge) and one of you said " Wow, I would really like the chance to disappoint her (or him, cant judge) in bed".

The fake outrage on this topic is wildly amusing.



Jeremy; don't use memes you don't understand.

17 
 Thumb up
0.30
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James King
United States
North Central Louisiana / No Longer A Resident of the Shreveport/Bossier City Area
Louisiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb

sikeospi wrote:
"...locker room banter must be reviled and condemned."

The criminialization of words?

There should be an exception to the First Amendment for something called "locker room banter"?

I know that one college recently decided shockingly to protect the First Amendment instead of giving in to political correctness.

I can't find the exact quote, but it was something like this reason.com quote from last year:

"Even if it were possible to measure emotional pain, and to decide at what point such pain should (pardon the term) trigger the censor's veto, it is not possible to protect everyone's feelings the way we can protect everyone's rights."

http://reason.com/archives/2015/03/18/the-death-of-free-spee...

But just because one can say something doesn't obligate him/her to say it just the same. The First Amendment after all does not exempt people from direful consequences of their own ill-chosen words.

And by the way, what is the exact definition of "Political Correctness" that you're using?


sikeospi wrote:
Isn't there "supposed locker room banter" in rap music, rated-R movies, and throughout the Internet?

No, I wouldn't call it "locker room banter" at all.


sikeospi wrote:
Who will be America's guardian of the naughty words?

If someone says something terrible on the job, then maybe they should be fired, suspended, or punished, but doesn't this happen already? If someone is touched inappropriately, that should be reported as soon as possible.

So should rape, but only a fraction of both sexual assaults and rapes are actually reported because of the inherant fear factors involved.


sikeospi wrote:
However, this search of every private video and e-mail for every political person is a bit much.

On the contrary, since he later alleged that he didn't actually do what he claimed on the 2005 "Access Hollywood" video to have done, Trump set himself up for everything that's followed by provoking responses from those who allege that he did indeed do what he stated in that 2005 "Access Hollywood" video.


sikeospi wrote:
Everyone is proud of every private conversation that they have ever had?"

It's not private if there are TV cameras and microphones around you.


sikeospi wrote:
Hillary Campaign Vows To Destroy Opposition Website

http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/18/hillary-campaign-vows-to-d...

I don't know that that's exactly what she said, but there have certainly been attempts to limit free speech. Private companies like Twitter, Facebook, Google, and others like to get into the act too. Perhaps they would be willing to attack "supposed locker room banter"?

Since some more recent court-case decisions have made online-content providers more legally responsible for the content of what's on their websites, companies will police their content more stringently than before in order to avoid justifiable law suits.


sikeospi wrote:
What was Justice Clarence Thomas' big crime supposedly saying the words "pubic hair on my Coke" and "Long Dong Silver"?

Clarence Thomas didn't volunteer those words. Indeed, he withheld that information. Thomas would have denied Anita Hill's allegation that he'd told her that he watched Long Dong Silver porno flicks if that allegation hadn't been independently confirmed as fact.

And by the way, there was no actual "pubic hair" on the top of that can of Coke that Anita Hill was drinking at the time. Clarence Thomas' perverted imagination hallucinated it there.


sikeospi wrote:
Fun game destroying a person's career and reputation...."

Yes, Clarence Thomas' supporters tried to do just that to Anita Hill.


sikeospi wrote:
As I said, everyone is proud of every private conversation that they have ever had?

Again, private conversations are NOT knowingly conducted in front of or within the range and victinity of video cameras and microphones.


sikeospi wrote:
Whose idea of "supposed locker room banter" to be "reviled and condemned"?

Republicans only?

If Republicans want to continue to try to minimize talk of assaulting women as merely "locker room banter", they can go ahead and do so. That doesn't mean, however, that they won't pay a political price for it at the ballot box though.


sikeospi wrote:
If Bill Clinton or John Kennedy said or did something naughty, would this cause Democrats to abandon them? Of course not!

If either one of them had done something on camera or within audio-recording range, it would depend entirely on the exact nature of what was said before anybody would consider doing anything of the sort.


sikeospi wrote:
This is now to be the most important idea when voting -- above everything else?

On the contrary, it's just the straw that breaks the already-overladen camel's back once and for all.


sikeospi wrote:
Well, it should be a factor, but most people have known that Trump has been crude for decades.

Ahhh, but it has only been recently that those past periodic episodes of Trump's public crudeness has been collated to compare and contrast his past-versus-present words and deeds.


sikeospi wrote:
Mrs. Clinton has been dishonest for over 40 years going back to since the Watergate, the cattle future scandal, and Whitewater from the 1970s. I think she's had her own crude language occasionally too.

And yet, Mrs. Clinton's alleged dishonesty didn't go out of its way to offend most people's sense and sensibilities to the egregious in-your-face degree that Trump's narcissistic pomposity and self-righteous mendacity has.


1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott O'Brien
United States
Connellsville
PA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bbenston wrote:
@Moshe: thanks for this.

Trump's apologists and sycophants in RSP have a lot to answer for, but the biggest concession you'll get out of them is something like "we're not electing a Boy Scout, and Bill Clinton did worse".

When one is an insult to basic decency and the other is an insult to basic intelligence.

Then again, it's one of the last cards to play, from a campaign in its death throes, one step away from either bringing folding chairs to the last debate or calling Hillary a bitch on live TV, because that's "telling it like it is", instead of being the political equivalent of seeping herpes sores.

The GOP these days seems to want to play it both ways: rile up the base against liberals, the media and minorities, and feign surprise at just how low it's gotten.

They're going to fall victim to every red meat-throwing rabid huckster and complete booger-eating assclown from now until the sun goes red giant.

I just so happen to think there are good government ways out of this mess for them, but it's tough medicine that's completely foreign to the revolving door of today's modern publishing/Fox/Breitbart/lobbying/outrage mill GOP.



the problem is not that Clinton did worse... the problem is that Hillary bullied Bills victims to preserve both of their politcal careers...
She is equally bad as trump.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Russell
United States
Clarkston
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
whac3 wrote:
None of what this woman writes is in the least unusual nor surprising. That fact alone should be terrifying.



I disagree, her story, while heartrending, isn't all that common. I've discussed this topic with many women and none of them have had experiences close to what this poor woman had.

The worst physical things I've heard were getting pinched on the ass (apparently nearly every time she used public transportation in Italy) and nearly getting peed on in a parking lot. (Not sure this was sexual harassment or just stupid drunk.) A few, but not even close to all, have gotten graphic comments on their appearance. Roughly aggregating, I'd say just over half of the women with whom I've discussed this hadn't even been subject to verbal harassment.

(This isn't intended to say what Trump did is defensible, because I've never bought into the concept that "everyone does it, so it's ok," but his comments unfortunately aren't all that uncommon, if a little more graphic than some.)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sao123 wrote:

She is equally bad as trump.

No, she really isn't. I'm not making excuses for her part in covering up her husband's misdeeds. Just admitting them for what they are, they are still not "just as bad" as what Trump has done. She is married to a sexual predator; Trump is a sexual predator. She participated in whatever degree of cover-up; since then she has build a career standing up for women's rights-- actively fighting against the very thing she was part of. Legitimately I think this should have ended her political career and against any normal opponent she wouldn't stand a chance. Trump is not an ordinary opponent. She is a bad choice as a politician. He is downright evil.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
qzhdad wrote:
I disagree, her story, while heartrending, isn't all that common.…

You may choose to disagree; that will not change facts. You are simply wrong.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Les Marshall
United States
Woodinville
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
sikeospi wrote:
"...locker room banter must be reviled and condemned."

The criminialization of words?

There should be an exception to the First Amendment for something called "locker room banter"?

I know that one college recently decided shockingly to protect the First Amendment instead of giving in to political correctness.

I can't find the exact quote, but it was something like this reason.com quote from last year:

"Even if it were possible to measure emotional pain, and to decide at what point such pain should (pardon the term) trigger the censor's veto, it is not possible to protect everyone's feelings the way we can protect everyone's rights."

http://reason.com/archives/2015/03/18/the-death-of-free-spee...

...

Isn't there "supposed locker room banter" in rap music, rated-R movies, and throughout the Internet?

Who will be America's guardian of the naughty words?

If someone says something terrible on the job, then maybe they should be fired, suspended, or punished, but doesn't this happen already? If someone is touched inappropriately, that should be reported as soon as possible.

However, this search of every private video and e-mail for every political person is a bit much.

Everyone is proud of every private conversation that they have ever had?

"I can see 'em now, huddled there in the corner..., playing every record slower and slower... then suddenly,'There's a naughty word!'" -- Doctor Johnny Fever, WKRP

...

Hillary Campaign Vows To Destroy Opposition Website

http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/18/hillary-campaign-vows-to-d...

I don't know that that's exactly what she said, but there have certainly been attempts to limit free speech. Private companies like Twitter, Facebook, Google, and others like to get into the act too. Perhaps they would be willing to attack "supposed locker room banter"?

...

What was Justice Clarence Thomas' big crime supposedly saying the words "pubic hair on my Coke" and "Long Dong Silver"?

Fun game destroying a person's career and reputation...

As I said, everyone is proud of every private conversation that they have ever had?

Whose idea of "supposed locker room banter" to be "reviled and condemned"?

Republicans only?

If Bill Clinton or John Kennedy said or did something naughty, would this cause Democrats to abandon them? Of course not!

This is now to be the most important idea when voting -- above everything else? Well, it should be a factor, but most people have known that Trump has been crude for decades. Mrs. Clinton has been dishonest for over 40 years going back to since the Watergate, the cattle future scandal, and Whitewater from the 1970s. I think she's had her own crude language occasionally too.


Utter drivel. If you actually bother to listen to the tape, Trump doesn't talk about what he thinks of women, what he fantasizes about doing or even what he thinks is okay. He actually says: This....is....what....I....have....done. It's what may be referred to in legal circles as an admission after the fact. Such revelations might be protected under seal of confession, in consultant with an attorney or as the shameful admissions to ones spouse. However, the gleeful admissions of pat deeds to a chuckling media personality really doesn't deserve any special treatment.

Then we're shocked when women come forward telling us Trump has actually acted on his now famously revealed playbook. Legions of women suddenly come forward and it MUST be a conspiracy. Or, defending ones husband against claims of sexual misconduct is somehow worse than actually engaging in the misconduct in the first place.

False equivalencies just don't come close to addressing the topic and your glib conflations about 1st Amendment issues is hopelessly misleading.
18 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chief Slovenly
United States
Burlington
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Uh oh! Watch out, Les -- acting like a moral human being with common logical sense and common decency is libby lib virtue signaling now!

HOT DAMN LOOK OUT WORLD!
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Russell
United States
Clarkston
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
whac3 wrote:
qzhdad wrote:
I disagree, her story, while heartrending, isn't all that common.…

You may choose to disagree; that will not change facts. You are simply wrong.


As a scientist, I'd think you'd take data over anecdotes, but you also tend to get emotional about some topics. A quick search looks like 40-60% of women have been harassed which means I am just simply right.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James King
United States
North Central Louisiana / No Longer A Resident of the Shreveport/Bossier City Area
Louisiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb


sao123 wrote:
bbenston wrote:
@Moshe: thanks for this.

Trump's apologists and sycophants in RSP have a lot to answer for, but the biggest concession you'll get out of them is something like "we're not electing a Boy Scout, and Bill Clinton did worse".

When one is an insult to basic decency and the other is an insult to basic intelligence.

Then again, it's one of the last cards to play, from a campaign in its death throes, one step away from either bringing folding chairs to the last debate or calling Hillary a bitch on live TV, because that's "telling it like it is", instead of being the political equivalent of seeping herpes sores.

The GOP these days seems to want to play it both ways: rile up the base against liberals, the media and minorities, and feign surprise at just how low it's gotten.

They're going to fall victim to every red meat-throwing rabid huckster and complete booger-eating assclown from now until the sun goes red giant.

I just so happen to think there are good government ways out of this mess for them, but it's tough medicine that's completely foreign to the revolving door of today's modern publishing/Fox/Breitbart/lobbying/outrage mill GOP.



the problem is not that Clinton did worse... the problem is that Hillary bullied Bills victims to preserve both of their politcal careers...
She is equally bad as trump.

Bullshit! Hillary reacted like any wife of a philandering husband who wasn't predisposed to separating from or divorcing her husband outright. Moreover, more people identified with the Clintons' plight than with the Republicans' sanctimoniously hypocritical inquisition. That's why Bill Clinton's approval ratings soared in the immediate wake of the Republicans' impeachment plot which unexpectedly resulting in exposing the prior-unknown infidelities of quite a number of their fellow Congressmen.

And by the way, two of those philandering women -- Paula Jones and Gennifer Flowers -- were indeed gold-digging bimbos. Flowers had posed for "Penthouse" magazine before her encounter(s) with Bill Clinton. Paula Jones and Juanita Broaddrick both philandered on their respective boyfriend and husband when they were involved with Clinton. Paula Jones' nude photos were in at least two editions of "Penthouse" magazine. She also got into the celebrity boxing ring with disgraced Olympic skater Tonya Harding, too.

As to Hillary's reaction to those philandering women, I don't see any meaningful difference in how she reacted compared to the way most women react in such cases.


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
qzhdad wrote:
whac3 wrote:
qzhdad wrote:
I disagree, her story, while heartrending, isn't all that common.…

You may choose to disagree; that will not change facts. You are simply wrong.


As a scientist, I'd think you'd take data over anecdotes, but you also tend to get emotional about some topics. A quick search looks like 40-60% of women have been harassed which means I am just simply right.

Who's getting emotional? All data I've ever seen flatly refutes your statements.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Russell
United States
Clarkston
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
whac3 wrote:
qzhdad wrote:
whac3 wrote:
qzhdad wrote:
I disagree, her story, while heartrending, isn't all that common.…

You may choose to disagree; that will not change facts. You are simply wrong.


As a scientist, I'd think you'd take data over anecdotes, but you also tend to get emotional about some topics. A quick search looks like 40-60% of women have been harassed which means I am just simply right.

Who's getting emotional? All data I've ever seen flatly refutes your statements.


Point to some data that says it's common for women to experience ten or more episodes of harassment that could be legally prosecuted like the one in your story.

What percentage of women do you think have been harassed and what data are you using? (and maybe we're quibbling over the word common.)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moshe Callen
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
designer
ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
badge
μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
http://www.endvawnow.org/en/articles/299-fast-facts-statisti...

I don't have time to google for you beyond a few seconds search but this is a good start.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Russell
United States
Clarkston
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
whac3 wrote:
http://www.endvawnow.org/en/articles/299-fast-facts-statisti...

I don't have time to google for you beyond a few seconds search but this is a good start.


Topic sentence of your link:
Quote:
Between 15 and 76 percent of women are targeted for physical and/or sexual violence in their lifetime, according to the available country data.


Sounds like we're both right, 1/6 and/or 3/4 women are affected.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MGK
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
qzhdad wrote:
I disagree, her story, while heartrending, isn't all that common. I've discussed this topic with many women and none of them have had experiences close to what this poor woman had....


"...that they trust you enough to tell you" is how this sentence actually ends

16 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dickie Crickets
United States
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bbenston wrote:
Uh oh! Watch out, Les -- acting like a moral human being with common logical sense and common decency is libby lib virtue signaling now!

HOT DAMN LOOK OUT WORLD!


Upon reflection, 'virtue signaling' might be my favorite alt-right hobbyhorse. It's the literal politicization of basic human decency. With a negative spin, no less! It's like the ultimate final form of shitlording; the Charizard of adolescent Internet rebellion.

Normal Person: "I don't think I could vote for a man who speaks so casually about performing sexual assault."
SUPREME EDGELORD ALT-RIGHT BAD-ASS MCGEE: "Ooooh, look at you, Mr. I Think Rape Is Bad! Trying to get them free Not A Rapist points from the other sheeple!"
15 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chief Slovenly
United States
Burlington
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
eaglebeak wrote:
bbenston wrote:
Uh oh! Watch out, Les -- acting like a moral human being with common logical sense and common decency is libby lib virtue signaling now!

HOT DAMN LOOK OUT WORLD!


Upon reflection, 'virtue signaling' might be my favorite alt-right hobbyhorse. It's the literal politicization of basic human decency. With a negative spin, no less! It's like the ultimate final form of shitlording; the Charizard of adolescent Internet rebellion.

Normal Person: "I don't think I could vote for a man who speaks so casually about performing sexual assault."
SUPREME EDGELORD ALT-RIGHT BAD-ASS MCGEE: "Ooooh, look at you, Mr. I Think Rape Is Bad! Trying to get them free Not A Rapist points from the other sheeple!"


Between the virtue signaling terminology and all the legit sites, it's balls-out amazing to me. Before too long, all the Not a Real Republican games are going to result in a GOP voter base that's basically 5 Aryan Nation guys in Wyoming*

*who've decided to go their own way and fuck each other on the DL
7 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Les Marshall
United States
Woodinville
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
hyperbolus wrote:
That is a lot of horrible things happening to one person. I do not believe her.


That is your privilege. In my experience, judging the veracity of a person simply by a reading of some black and white printed statements without resort to seeing and hearing that person, or examining other elements of the allegations, is of dubious value.

However, her credibility is of far less importance than the overwhelming weight of professional prosecutors who know only too well that victims of sexual predation very often do not report such incidents proximate to the event and sometimes not ever. The Trump campaign takes a disingenuous position at best to argue that passage of time is, by itself, evidence against those accusers.
12 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.