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Tesla vs. Edison: War of Currents» Forums » Rules

Subject: Level 3 project - pay level 4 patent? rss

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Chuckhazard
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I have level 3 tech across the board. I build a level 3 project. Someone had the level 4 patent. Do I have to pay the level 4 patent?

Also can I patent level 3 when level 4 is already patented?
 
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Eric Amick
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chuckhazard wrote:
I have level 3 tech across the board. I build a level 3 project. Someone had the level 4 patent. Do I have to pay the level 4 patent?

Also can I patent level 3 when level 4 is already patented?


Patent payments go to whoever holds the patent for the level of technology you actually use, and you can patent a level of technology you develop if no one else has patented it. Higher levels of technology are simply better; they don't override or eliminate lower levels.
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Chuckhazard
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Total. Game. Changer. We have been playing this game so wrong; thinking the top level patent holder always got the payment led to a race to hold level 5/5/4 patents, which in turn made Edison overly powerful.

I also read, while trying to clarify this, that you always build your best tech... So if I was building a level 3 project, but had 4 across the board, I would have to pay the level 4 patent holder. Is this correct?
 
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Eric Amick
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chuckhazard wrote:
Total. Game. Changer. We have been playing this game so wrong; thinking the top level patent holder always got the payment led to a race to hold level 5/5/4 patents, which in turn made Edison overly powerful.

I also read, while trying to clarify this, that you always build your best tech... So if I was building a level 3 project, but had 4 across the board, I would have to pay the level 4 patent holder. Is this correct?


Yes. You used level 4, so you pay the patent holder for level 4. Projects specify the minimum level of technology needed to build them.
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Tanner Marvin
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I just want to clarify that you pay the patient fee to the patent holder on the level of technology you're currently sitting on. If you are on 4 and nobody holds the patent and you build a level 3 and someone holds the patent on 3. You do NOT pay the person with the level 3 patent.
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Drew Scott
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I believe the designer has said that everyone wants the best technology they can get from you, which is a nice thematic way to think through what has to happen.

So if you have achieved, say, Level 4 bulbs, but you connect a Level 3 city, that city isn't going to settle for your now-outdated Level 3 capabilities. "You can do Level 4! Give us that!," they will cry. They don't care if you'd prefer to use a lesser technology (because you own the patent), nor if you'd really rather not pay an opponent for the use of his patented tech.

Unless I have that horribly wrong. I'm sure someone on BGG will correct me...
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Blake Burns
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Yes. You pay the highest technology patent fees that someone holds.

Ex: If you claim a project on level 2 and someone holds a patent on level 4, you pay patent fees the the highest level patent claimed. Level 4 would get the fees.
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Kas Nova

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Blakeburns20 wrote:
Yes. You pay the highest technology patent fees that someone holds.

Ex: If you claim a project on level 2 and someone holds a patent on level 4, you pay patent fees the the highest level patent claimed. Level 4 would get the fees.


The rules say "Players are always using the highest technology level that they have developed, so patent payments are determined by current technology level , the that required by the project."

Say Tesla holds the patent on level 3 lightbulbs and Walker has only advanced to level 2 lightbulbs, which she has a patent on. Is Walker using the level 2 lightbulbs when she claims a level 2 project or is she using level 3 lightbulbs? It all seems to depend on how you interpret the bolded part above. Is technology used by every player as it gets researched by any one player or can players use only the tech they have themselves? Sorry if it's obvious to others, but I've never seen this situation exactly answered. Everyone is always giving examples where every player is up to the same level.
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Eric Amick
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KasNova wrote:
Blakeburns20 wrote:
Yes. You pay the highest technology patent fees that someone holds.

Ex: If you claim a project on level 2 and someone holds a patent on level 4, you pay patent fees the the highest level patent claimed. Level 4 would get the fees.


The rules say "Players are always using the highest technology level that they have developed, so patent payments are determined by current technology level , the that required by the project."

Say Tesla holds the patent on level 3 lightbulbs and Walker has only advanced to level 2 lightbulbs, which she has a patent on. Is Walker using the level 2 lightbulbs when she claims a level 2 project or is she using level 3 lightbulbs? It all seems to depend on how you interpret the bolded part above. Is technology used by every player as it gets researched by any one player or can players use only the tech they have themselves? Sorry if it's obvious to others, but I've never seen this situation exactly answered. Everyone is always giving examples where every player is up to the same level.


Walker can't use level 3 because she hasn't developed it. Players develop technologies independently; the patent is merely a reward for being the first to develop that level and paying the necessary fee.
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Benji
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In other words, this

Blakeburns20 wrote:
Yes. You pay the highest technology patent fees that someone holds.

Ex: If you claim a project on level 2 and someone holds a patent on level 4, you pay patent fees the the highest level patent claimed. Level 4 would get the fees.


is wrong. You don't pay for a patent you don't know how to use.
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Kas Nova

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Thanks. That's how I've been playing it so it's goods to see confirmation.
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Marcin
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Sorry but I still don`t know how is correct.
If I hold level 4 patents and my opponent holds level 3 patents and I`m claiming a project at level 3 city should I pay him patents fee or not?
 
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Christophe Jannin
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detrytus wrote:
Sorry but I still don`t know how is correct.
If I hold level 4 patents and my opponent holds level 3 patents and I`m claiming a project at level 3 city should I pay him patents fee or not?


No. You pay the patent of the max level of technology you have/know. Not the patent at the project level.
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Marcin
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haplo92 wrote:

No. You pay the patent of the max level of technology you have/know. Not the patent at the project level.

Ok but what about opposite situation?
Let say I have level 3 patents and my opponent level 4. I want to claim project at level 3 city but first I want to raise my bulb technology at 4. So according to what You wrote I should pay him for bulb patent. If I will not advance in technology I should not pay any fee, right?
 
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Christophe Jannin
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detrytus wrote:
haplo92 wrote:

No. You pay the patent of the max level of technology you have/know. Not the patent at the project level.

Ok but what about opposite situation?
Let say I have level 3 patents and my opponent level 4. I want to claim project at level 3 city but first I want to raise my bulb technology at 4. So according to what You wrote I should pay him for bulb patent. If I will not advance in technology I should not pay any fee, right?

right.
 
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Marcin
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Thanks!

btw companies doesn`t work in that way
 
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Claudio Coppini
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detrytus wrote:
Ok but what about opposite situation?
Let say I have level 3 patents and my opponent level 4. I want to claim project at level 3 city but first I want to raise my bulb technology at 4. So according to what You wrote I should pay him for bulb patent. If I will not advance in technology I should not pay any fee, right?


I don't think you should pay the patent even if you raise your bulb technology at 4.

The rulebook says:

"If a player’s technology level exceeds the requirement for a project, she
MAY also use any technology level above the required so as to avoid paying patent fees"

So you can use a higher level of technology in order to avoid paying fees, but if the project you're building is level 3, you can still use your level 3 patent for that project even if you raise your technology level to 4.
 
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Marcin
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This make more sense to me.
Christophe your turn
 
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Christophe Jannin
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Page 7 of the rulebook. Part 1-D. third line from the top :
Players are always using the highest technology level that they have developed, so patent payments are determined by current technology level, not that required by the project

the emphasis in bold are mine
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Claudio Coppini
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haplo92 wrote:
Page 7 of the rulebook. Part 1-D. third line from the top :
Players are always using the highest technology level that they have developed, so patent payments are determined by current technology level, not that required by the project

the emphasis in bold are mine


Yeah, I think there is a contradiction in the rulebook, since the sentence I quoted is right before the one you quoted.

I guess only the designer can confirm which direction is correct?
 
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Claudio Coppini
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Yeah ok, just found the following comment from the designer in a separate thread:

"When claiming a level 2 project you only need to pay the level 2 patent technology holder if you are on level 2. If you are higher you are paying the patent to whoever holds that level that you are actually on. That might be level 2 or not."

So Cristophe is right!

Edit: So I guess the sentence I quoted only refer to situations where you are the only one that has a higher level for that particular technology.
 
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Drew Scott
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I'm quoting myself, not because I have an ego problem (though, hey, maybe I do) but because I want to be sure what I said earlier in this thread actually applies. It can be easy to get caught in the weeds of rules clarifications without looking at a board or having the whole rulebook in front of you.

Stately Wayne wrote:
...everyone wants the best technology they can get from you, which is a nice thematic way to think through what has to happen.

So if you have achieved, say, Level 4 bulbs, but you connect a Level 3 city, that city isn't going to settle for your now-outdated Level 3 capabilities. "You can do Level 4! Give us that!," they will cry.


So I'm still good with this theme-based reasoning for the rules, right?
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John Harrington
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I believe so.

You are on theme.

Give 'em your best, and if someone else holds the patent for it, that's unfortunate for you.
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Dan L
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Something that's bothering me. What do you end up paying to the patent owner? For example. I want to build in a level 1 technology town. My progress on the tech track is 4 on both bulb and AC. However, my opponent currently holds a patent on level 4 and 5 bulb technology but I hold the patent on AC technology 4.

I am therefore forced to use my highest available technology and thus pay the patent fee cost for level 4 in bulb, despite building in a level 1 town? So 1000$ x tech level ( 4 in this case, for bulb)


 
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Marcin
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Yes. You have to give the best what you can to town. Because you can. And of course you should pay to owner of that patent.
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