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Harry Potter: Hogwarts Battle» Forums » Variants

Subject: Fresh Set of Hogwarts Cards Every Turn rss

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Annie Tipton
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We have played though game 6, and have been a little frustrated that we haven't been able to make a dent in the Hogwarts deck. Evn with 4 heroes in action it doesn't seem like we're able to acquire much more than half of the deck. And if you get stuck with face-up cards that require 6+ influence tokens, well, it's pretty easy to get stuck, especially early in the game.

I have read in other threads where some people are allowing one reset of the 6 Hogwarts cards per game, and I think that's a good idea. I just played a hand (2 heroes in play) of game 6 where I reset the 6 Hogwarts cards at the end of every turnevery turn. When I got to the end of the deck, I shuffled the Hogwarts cards and started again. I cycled through the deck about 4 times in Game 6.

It didn't feel to me like it changed the difficulty of the game. It was nice to see fresh cards/options in every turn, but I couldn't strategize with the cards available. (In the normal play, we will figure out which face-up cards
are best for each heroand make sure that player gets a to acquire it... you can't do that here).
 
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David Jones
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I don't think you are meant to acquire the entire Hogwarts deck during the game. In fact, I often get to the point where the cards available would make my deck worse and its better to simply stop buying. I'm not sure where you got the idea that gaining every card was a necessary part of the game.
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Mike Cook
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I don't think the original poster is advocating trying to acquire the entire hogwarts deck, I think they are advocating *seeing* as much of it in the game as possible.
I have this game in the closet hidden from my wife as a Christmas present (we will see if I can handle keeping it there until Christmas!), so there may already be cards that do this and thus are weakened by this idea - but what if you just allow once per turn, or maybe once per round to get rid of one card from those available? This increases your chances of getting a card you want for a combo or strategy you are going for or getting a chance to have more variety.

Take that for what you will from someone who hasn't even played the game yet, haha. This is one of my primary complaints from games like Ascension where you have a dynamic market. I think Legendary Marvel does a good job of balancing this as you will always have roughly the same size of hero deck. Also why I think Dominion will always be my actual favorite deck builder, since it has a static market.
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David Hoffman
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I kind of dig the idea of discarding whatever cards weren't bought at the end of a round. As is, you can afford to leave cards sit until you feel like buying them, but the increased urgency to buy something before it vanishes might be interesting.
 
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Corey Hopkins
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I like that you don't see much of the deck in a given game. I think having to use different cards to build your deck from game to game increases replay ability. Plus, if you could clear the market, players would just do that until their favorite cards came up and never change strategy.
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B C Z
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I like being able to plan for a purchase, to allow Hermione to boost the right person at the right time with her book.

I like that Neville might get to share his Butter Beer to prepare for a desired purchase.

I enjoy the periodic stalls that a market filled with high cost cards brings, as it make you think strategically about your choices, whether to force card draws and moving the right resources to the right people.

And having completed the full campaign with my wife, I like that we still haven't experienced every card the game has to offer and that we are not encouraged to cherry pick the very best cards from the Market.
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Nick South
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I wonder if it might be good to burn one card from the market if you spend one influence. This might help the problem later in the game where nothing is available that can really help you. I haven't had the problem of high priced cards bogging us down early, especially if you use Hermione as she can typically buy 5 or 6 priced cards early thanks to her ability.


I might try the burn one for one influence house rule to see how it works. I'd limit it to once per turn though. Could even make it a mutual agreement of which card gets tossed since this is a cooperative game. You still wouldn't get anywhere near the end of the deck this way, which is kind of cool.
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Kevin B. Smith
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A different option would be to have the bottom two cards disappear each (turn or round?), if they weren't bought, and then have everything else slide down, and refill. I would prefer to have one card fall off each turn/round, but that would be annoyingly fiddly due to the 3x2 layout.

It would unclog the market, and would let you see more of the deck. But it would still allow some strategic planning, and would apply pressure to buy that great card BEFORE IT GOES AWAY ARGH! And it would avoid the players getting to cherry pick just the cards they want.

We're in game 3, and so far we're fine with the rules as written. If our market gets clogged too much, we'll first try the publisher suggestion of one flush per game. If that doesn't work, then we'll try one of these experiments.
 
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Jason Webster
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Lost to Game 4 today. Started the game with cost 6 cards. We had a very slow start and it was a long time before skull( death eater masks??) token removal cards became available. The bad market definitely play a part in our loss.
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Mike Krajewski
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I don't think it's a problem that you don't go through the whole Hogwarts deck. I think that's part of the game. Every time you play, you'll encounter different cards and need to figure out how to win with what you get. That's part of what adds to the replayability.
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Annie Tipton
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ColtCrazy wrote:
I wonder if it might be good to burn one card from the market if you spend one influence. This might help the problem later in the game where nothing is available that can really help you. I haven't had the problem of high priced cards bogging us down early, especially if you use Hermione as she can typically buy 5 or 6 priced cards early thanks to her ability.


I might try the burn one for one influence house rule to see how it works. I'd limit it to once per turn though. Could even make it a mutual agreement of which card gets tossed since this is a cooperative game. You still wouldn't get anywhere near the end of the deck this way, which is kind of cool.


I had actually thought about doing this as well. Any extra influence tokens that the active hero doesn't use to purchse Hogwarts tokens, each one can be used to remove a face-up Hogwarts card.
 
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Kevin B. Smith
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annietipton wrote:
I had actually thought about doing this as well. Any extra influence tokens that the active hero doesn't use to purchse Hogwarts tokens, each one can be used to remove a face-up Hogwarts card.

Removing a single card from the market is a very powerful operation. If I houseruled it, I would definitely make it more expensive. Maybe 4 influence, or perhaps a player's entire turn (they couldn't attack or heal or recruit). I definitely wouldn't allow removing more than one card per turn.

Flushing the entire market, as suggested by the publisher, would create a much more tense and interesting decision, which is what I look for in a game. Is it worth giving up those cards you really want, to get rid of the ones you don't?

But that's just me. Obviously everyone should find the variants and houserules that will maximize their own enjoyment.
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Annie Tipton
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chopkins828 wrote:
I like that you don't see much of the deck in a given game. I think having to use different cards to build your deck from game to game increases replay ability. Plus, if you could clear the market, players would just do that until their favorite cards came up and never change strategy.


I haven't found that refreshing the Hogwarts cards at every turn decreases replayability. The fact remains that any hero is probably only able to purchase 0-2 cards any turn, so refreshing/cycling through the full deck multiple times doesn't mean that they will be acquiring more cards. That, coupled with the new sense of urgency (this card won't come around for a while again so if I want it, I'd bettter try my hardest to buy it) is nice. Again, as I said in my initial post, I didn't notice that it was any harder or any easier for the heroes by playing this way. It felt the same to me...just a little different with the Hogwarts cards.
 
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Mike Krajewski
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annietipton wrote:
chopkins828 wrote:
I like that you don't see much of the deck in a given game. I think having to use different cards to build your deck from game to game increases replay ability. Plus, if you could clear the market, players would just do that until their favorite cards came up and never change strategy.


I haven't found that refreshing the Hogwarts cards at every turn decreases replayability. The fact remains that any hero is probably only able to purchase 0-2 cards any turn, so refreshing/cycling through the full deck multiple times doesn't mean that they will be acquiring more cards. That, coupled with the new sense of urgency (this card won't come around for a while again so if I want it, I'd bettter try my hardest to buy it) is nice. Again, as I said in my initial post, I didn't notice that it was any harder or any easier for the heroes by playing this way. It felt the same to me...just a little different with the Hogwarts cards.


I would tend to think that doing this would make the game easier since good cards would come up more often. If they balance the Hogwarts deck so you won't go through the entire thing, then they have cards in there knowing that some games you won't be able to purchase it due to it being a the bottom of the deck. By cycling the deck, you are guaranteeing that the better cards come up more often.

Of course, if this makes the game more fun to you, go for it. But I do think it would make the game easier.
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Trey brumley
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I think a good idea to implement is to allow players to pay 1 coin to replace 1 hogwarts card.
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Michael Kefauver
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I'm on the side that 1 for 1 might be a bit too cheap. I do wish that there was some way to control the shopping area, as most other deckbuilders with a 'central row' (like Ascension, Star Realms, Tyrants of the Underdark) have cards that let you manipulate the shopping area.

I've only played a few times, I admit, but starting out with a selection of useless/expensive cards can make the game a crawl, or a foregone conclusion. It feels strange to have to have discussions like "Oh, everything that's out there would just make my deck a lot worse, so I'll just buy nothing" and "Oh, could you buy those cards no-one wants mid to late game (qudditch gear, wingardiam leviosa, chocolate frogs) so we can get to the better cards?" And since there's no way to trash in this game that I've seen yet, once you buy a sub-par card, it's there in your deck forever.

I think maybe making it so that you can pay 2-3 to cycle a card might work. Or maybe something like "If you buy no cards on your turn, you can discard one card from the shopping area and re-fill it"? That way you can't just dig through the deck super-fast by spending money, the deck cycles naturally if people are buying things, but you still have some minor control over getting rid of 'bad' cards. And there's an opportunity cost (I can buy all four of those 1-cost cards to free up a lot of new opportunities for someone else, or buy nothing and get rid of one but keep my deck 'slim'.)
 
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Trey brumley
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Nessmk2 wrote:
I'm on the side that 1 for 1 might be a bit too cheap. I do wish that there was some way to control the shopping area, as most other deckbuilders with a 'central row' (like Ascension, Star Realms, Tyrants of the Underdark) have cards that let you manipulate the shopping area.

I've only played a few times, I admit, but starting out with a selection of useless/expensive cards can make the game a crawl, or a foregone conclusion. It feels strange to have to have discussions like "Oh, everything that's out there would just make my deck a lot worse, so I'll just buy nothing" and "Oh, could you buy those cards no-one wants mid to late game (qudditch gear, wingardiam leviosa, chocolate frogs) so we can get to the better cards?" And since there's no way to trash in this game that I've seen yet, once you buy a sub-par card, it's there in your deck forever.

I think maybe making it so that you can pay 2-3 to cycle a card might work. Or maybe something like "If you buy no cards on your turn, you can discard one card from the shopping area and re-fill it"? That way you can't just dig through the deck super-fast by spending money, the deck cycles naturally if people are buying things, but you still have some minor control over getting rid of 'bad' cards. And there's an opportunity cost (I can buy all four of those 1-cost cards to free up a lot of new opportunities for someone else, or buy nothing and get rid of one but keep my deck 'slim'.)


I agree with everything you say. The main benefit here is that the game becomes less fun when there are crappy cards in the play area so there needs to be a way to replenish. I think I'll start with "If you buy no cards on your turn, you can discard one card from the shopping area and re-fill it"
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Kevin B. Smith
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For those who missed it, there was an earlier thread about the same problem that this variant tries to fix: Clearing the market

In it, one of the designers posted:
Quote:
Our solution is as follows:

Once per game, a player may forego acquiring any cards for his or her turn. If he or she does, take ALL SIX available HOGWARTS cards, and place them on the bottom of the deck, replacing them with six new cards.

We feel most comfortable with this option, because it does not allow players to manipulate by picking and choosing which cards they might want to remain available, and which ones they want to cycle through. Basically, it wipes the slate clean, and gives players a fresh selection of six cards to acquire.

Further discussion about that option (or how to clear one card at a time) should probably move to that thread. This thread should probably go back to the idea of just resetting the entire market every turn. (Or every round, which is how I would probably implement this variant.)
 
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peakhope wrote:
For those who missed it, there was an earlier thread about the same problem that this variant tries to fix: Clearing the market

In it, one of the designers posted:
Quote:
Our solution is as follows:

Once per game, a player may forego acquiring any cards for his or her turn. If he or she does, take ALL SIX available HOGWARTS cards, and place them on the bottom of the deck, replacing them with six new cards.

We feel most comfortable with this option, because it does not allow players to manipulate by picking and choosing which cards they might want to remain available, and which ones they want to cycle through. Basically, it wipes the slate clean, and gives players a fresh selection of six cards to acquire.

Further discussion about that option (or how to clear one card at a time) should probably move to that thread. This thread should probably go back to the idea of just resetting the entire market every turn. (Or every round, which is how I would probably implement this variant.)


About that rule - is it once per game per player, or just once per game? I'm assuming once per game, but I can see people taking it as once per game per player as well.
 
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Kevin B. Smith
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Moo Cow wrote:
About that rule - is it once per game per player, or just once per game? I'm assuming once per game, but I can see people taking it as once per game per player as well.

Right. In that thread, the ambiguity was pointed out, and it was clarified that the players as a group could only choose to do it once per game.
 
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Another quick idea for helping the market.

It doesn't help when cards are too expensive, but it helps for cards that people just don't want in their decks.

What if you could pay to buy a card, but choose to remove it from the game or put it on the bottom of the Hogwarts deck instead? You're basically paying the cost of that card to see it go away. Doesn't seem overly powerful at all to me, and gives the option of still using coins you may have on your turn when there isn't anything you want in your deck.
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cory swafford
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How about every time the location changes all of the cards are swept out of the market and 6 new ones appear?
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Dnasearchr wrote:
Lost to Game 4 today. Started the game with cost 6 cards. We had a very slow start and it was a long time before skull( death eater masks??) token removal cards became available. The bad market definitely play a part in our loss.

a True Story soblue shake
 
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Michael Tagge
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Moo Cow wrote:
Another quick idea for helping the market.

It doesn't help when cards are too expensive, but it helps for cards that people just don't want in their decks.

What if you could pay to buy a card, but choose to remove it from the game or put it on the bottom of the Hogwarts deck instead? You're basically paying the cost of that card to see it go away. Doesn't seem overly powerful at all to me, and gives the option of still using coins you may have on your turn when there isn't anything you want in your deck.
I like this idea and will probably house rule it. The whole point is to have fun, and if this increases fun why not?
 
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