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Subject: First Game milestone odd timing issue (Spoilers for prologue and first game) rss

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Jorgen Peddersen
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Sorry if this has been addressed already, but I couldn't find any reference to it...

I'm preparing for playing the first game and I noticed a very odd timing issue with the Milestone triggered prior to the first game.

The Dream of Empire (the Milestone that you resolve before the first game) clearly states that you go to entry 425 after setup, but before the first turn. Now, during this setup, you have no leader card. Thus, you technically cannot resolve step 10 of the setup to gain starting reputation and fortune tokens.

So, after that, you resolve entry 425 and you get your new leader, make choices about your faction, and start the game. Thus, it seems that if you are following the rules, you will have no starting reputation nor fortune tokens in this first game (unless the starting entries, which I have not yet read, provide you some). I somehow doubt that this is intended and I think the rules are not meant to be taken that literally.

Am I missing something here? Did anybody else notice this and play the first game without any starting reputation and fortune due to the timing?
 
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j n
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I just played the prologue/first game today and this issue came up for us. The rules as written do appear to give you no fortune nor reputation at the start of the first game.

This seemed likely to us to make the first game quite resource-poor, and ultimately decided to go ahead and have each player start with two fortune and reputation. The game played fine (ended after the 7th turn).

I don't think either way will automatically ruin your experience, but starting with none will very likely cause the first game to take longer. Maybe something will happen that makes us regret this decision, but I doubt it.
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Thomas Robb
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In the set up part of the rule book, when you get a leader, you get the 2 fortune and 2 reputation as that leader's assets

concerning entry 425, it instructs taking a new leader card and probably should have said take its fortune and reputation so I would play it that you get the tokens with the leader

IMHO
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j n
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Out of curiosity, I went back and spoiled myself on one of the choices not taken.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
At least one of the options improved the leader's fortune. I have to assume that since all the other options applied to game 1, the fortune should also.


Therefore, I conclude that it is most likely correct that you claim fortune and reputation after making all of your choices from that milestone.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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lactamaeon wrote:
Out of curiosity, I went back and spoiled myself on one of the choices not taken.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
At least one of the options improved the leader's fortune. I have to assume that since all the other options applied to game 1, the fortune should also.


Therefore, I conclude that it is most likely correct that you claim fortune and reputation after making all of your choices from that milestone.

Thanks for spoiling in a fairly innocuous way, but ugh, that makes things even worse, rules wise.

You can make a valid argument that you should receive reputation and fortune tokens when you gain the leader card, but this is now asking you to wait until the end of an arbitrary rules segment with no indication to do so.

I'd really like to see an official view on this one now as I don't know why the card makes it so clear to read the section after setup but before the first turn.

Is there anything else that can be gained during the execution of 425 (and the other sections it makes you read) that would affect setup? If the tokens are the only thing, then it will almost seem like they are intending the first game to not have tokens...
 
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j n
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I think this is just an "oops".

Spoiler (click to reveal)
To clarify, I didn't check them all but I think every choice leads to a free "game win" upgrade based on your choice. Which implies that they should all just work.

One of them also grants an appellation which gives fortune or rep each winter, so it's definitely not the case that you're supposed to play entirely without the tokens.

The intention seems likely to have been to draw out the sense of loss from the prologue end as much as possible, and they just missed the weird rules interaction.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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I hope it is... I guess I'll just do it at the end of entry 425.
 
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Joseph Cochran
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We just finished the first game and played without. Whether intended or not, the game doesn't really break if you don't have them IMO since you're still learning all the rules and such anyway.
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