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Santorini» Forums » Variants

Subject: Adding a bit of randomness to the game rss

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Alfonso Velasco
Spain
Madrid
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I would like to add some randomness to the game
How does this work?:
-Gods are selected amongst 3 cards faced up. At the start of the turn a player can select one. It can be used or not and it's discarded at the end of the turn.Then a new god is drawn. If the deck is empty it is reshuffled.
Comments of the experts?
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matt tolman
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Calgary
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This would be terrible. The whole game is manipulating the game state to favor your god's power. This would destroy that entirely.
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Paul Saxberg
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Donegal wrote:
I would like to add some randomness to the game
How does this work?:
-Gods are selected amongst 3 cards faced up. At the start of the turn a player can select one. It can be used or not and it's discarded at the end of the turn.Then a new god is drawn. If the deck is empty it is reshuffled.
Comments of the experts?


Hey Alfonso,

Matt's right, the game was designed with pure strategy in mind.

That said, there's one god included in the base set that will be right up your alley: Chaos. The Chaos player shuffles the 10 Simple gods into a pile and starts with a random one; every time someone builds a dome, they draw a new one and their power changes.

Your proposed method of play would be balanced but definitely more chaotic than most Santorini players would prefer. I would recommend if you're going to try it, you stick to the Simple gods - many of the more advanced ones won't make sense with their powers appearing and disappearing throughout play or creating illegal combinations.
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Mike Beiter
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Tonawanda
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Isn't Zeus similar to this as well?

He has the alternating powers of several different gods, right?
 
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Paul Saxberg
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MajaiofDreams wrote:
Isn't Zeus similar to this as well?

He has the alternating powers of several different gods, right?


Zeus during the campaign was going to be along those lines, yes, but for a variety of reasons was changed to a completely different concept.

Final version Zeus has the ability to build beneath his own workers now. (Note that building a level 3 building beneath your own worker does not count as moving up to level 3 for the purposes of winning.)
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Michael Van Biesbrouck
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St Catharines
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There are some randomized powers that were created for the original edition of Santorini, the most extreme of which was Tyche. You can find other examples in the Gods Suggestions thread.

Maybe expansion 2 will have some randomized powers.
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olanmills
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I wouldn't call this random exactly, but the OP's suggestion reminded me a little of Onitama.

What if:
At the beginning of the game, three god powers are selected.
(don't select god powers that won't work well with the following rules)
Give one to each player, and place one off to the side.
At the beginning of your turn, your current god power applies.
At the end of your turn, swap your god power with the one that is off to the side.
(Alternatively, the rule could be changed so that the swap happens at the beginning of the turn).
---

Additionally, if you wanted to make it more like Onitama:
Select five god powers at the beginning of the game
(again, don't select god powers that won't work well with the following rules).
Give two to each player and put one off to the side.
At the beginning of your turn, select which of your two god powers will apply for your turn.
At the end of your turn, swap out the god power you had selected (whether or not you actually made use of it) with the one that is off to the side.

--

With the first set of rules, there isn't randomness (since the cadence of which power each player gets on which turns is predictable), but still some variety and more complexity in trying to plan ahead.

With the second set of rules, there is a bit of "randomness", as you don't know which power your opponent will choose to use (and therefore pass to you eventually), except that it's not really random, especially with the right strategy, as you can maybe entice or even force your opponent to use a particular one of the two god powers at their disposal. You can still sort of plan ahead with the god powers, but you can't know exactly which powers you'll have available on specific future turns, and now there's an extra layer of sort of meta strategy regarding your influence on the exchange of god powers.

I haven't actually tried this. I just thought of it after reading the OP.
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Michael Van Biesbrouck
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olanmills wrote:
Additionally, if you wanted to make it more like Onitama:
Select five god powers at the beginning of the game
(again, don't select god powers that won't work well with the following rules).
Give two to each player and put one off to the side.
At the beginning of your turn, select which of your two god powers will apply for your turn.
At the end of your turn, swap out the god power you had selected (whether or not you actually made use of it) with the one that is off to the side.


Gord! likes to play with multiple powers, but many powers don't combine well and the problems can be subtle (A and B might work together unless opposed by C, which normally works with either A or B). Problems might not be discovered until you are well into a game, so you are on your own for that.

There are god powers that make sense for a single workers (Artemis moving twice, but not Hades preventing opponent workers from moving down). I will post a list in the next few days. If you pick five or six of them and each player assigns one of them to each worker in a draft, then you can save the extra(s) for an Onitama-like swap. When you move a piece, you give up its power and take the power your opponent just gave up as the new power for that piece. Should be interesting, but expect a lot of analysis paralysis.
 
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Alexander McKinney
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Fort Lauderdale
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mind_ranger wrote:


Final version Zeus has the ability to build beneath his own workers now. (Note that building a level 3 building beneath your own worker does not count as moving up to level 3 for the purposes of winning.)


Is this explicitly stated anywhere, or is it because to win you have to move up to the third level?
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Byron S
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Ventura
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but I can spout off obscure rules to all sorts of game like nobody's business!
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lexifer wrote:
mind_ranger wrote:


Final version Zeus has the ability to build beneath his own workers now. (Note that building a level 3 building beneath your own worker does not count as moving up to level 3 for the purposes of winning.)


Is this explicitly stated anywhere, or is it because to win you have to move up to the third level?
Both!
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Dapperghast Meowregard
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runtsta wrote:
lexifer wrote:
mind_ranger wrote:


Final version Zeus has the ability to build beneath his own workers now. (Note that building a level 3 building beneath your own worker does not count as moving up to level 3 for the purposes of winning.)


Is this explicitly stated anywhere, or is it because to win you have to move up to the third level?
Both!


I don't think so, at least I couldn't find it in the rules when my friend played Zeus, though we did come to the same conclusion based on the other post I saw about how you only win if you specifically move from 2 to 3.
 
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Paul Saxberg
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Dapperghast wrote:
runtsta wrote:
lexifer wrote:
mind_ranger wrote:


Final version Zeus has the ability to build beneath his own workers now. (Note that building a level 3 building beneath your own worker does not count as moving up to level 3 for the purposes of winning.)


Is this explicitly stated anywhere, or is it because to win you have to move up to the third level?
Both!


I don't think so, at least I couldn't find it in the rules when my friend played Zeus, though we did come to the same conclusion based on the other post I saw about how you only win if you specifically move from 2 to 3.


Page 1, "Winning The Game":

"If one of your Workers moves up on top of level 3 during your turn, you instantly win!"

(Boldness from the rulebook. So this actually covers the hero ability [and any hypothetical future gods or heroes] that let you move up more than one level as well.)

*edited for spelling*
 
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Dapperghast Meowregard
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mind_ranger wrote:


Page 1, "Winning The Game":

"If one of your Workers moves up on top of level 3 during your turn, you instantly win!"


True, though if you build under yourself you are moving up in a literal sense, just not in a form that's recognized as the in-game specifically defined move action (Honestly I think I was thrown off by the rules actually being written in rulesese after getting used to Powergrid style "instructions" in my board games )
 
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Paul Saxberg
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Dapperghast wrote:
(Honestly I think I was thrown off by the rules actually being written in rulesese after getting used to Powergrid style "instructions" in my board games )


We appreciate all your feedback, but this sentence in particular is well-timed. I give our rules team a lot of grief for not speaking in plainer English. laugh

The trouble is, they don't really deserve that grief. The plain English works perfectly well for 98% of cases... but when a bizarre combination of powers pops up and someone needs to know what happens when you pop up out of Charybdis' whirlpool onto a third level block which also happens to be the space Tartarus' Pit is on, this is when the rulesese becomes necessary.
 
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Dapperghast Meowregard
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Actually I prefer the rulesese personally, I got my start in gaming mostly from Magic (Well, Pokemon first, but that segued into Magic), so I much prefer explicitly defined interactions and terminology instead of having to figure out if turns, phases, furlongs, and rounds are different intervals or if they're just being used interchangeably. Or like in the other thread with Limus and Medusa, instead of having a three hour debate on the burrowing capabilities of a black bear, it's just "Medusa explicitly uses the term build, and Limus explicitly prevents building in the relevant squares, boom, done, took us like ten seconds."
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Michael Van Biesbrouck
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mind_ranger wrote:
"If one of your Workers moves up on top of level 3 during your turn, you instantly win!"

(Boldness from the rulebook. So this actually covers the hero ability [and any hypothetical future gods or heroes] that let you move up more than one level as well.)


Charybdis is a non-hypothetical god power that can allow you to move up by three levels. (Bellerophon is the hero power that lets you move up two levels at a time, probably for a win. Feel free to use him against any god.)
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Michael Van Biesbrouck
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Dapperghast wrote:
Actually I prefer the rulesese personally, I got my start in gaming mostly from Magic (Well, Pokemon first, but that segued into Magic), so I much prefer explicitly defined interactions and terminology instead of having to figure out if turns, phases, furlongs, and rounds are different intervals or if they're just being used interchangeably. Or like in the other thread with Limus and Medusa, instead of having a three hour debate on the burrowing capabilities of a black bear, it's just "Medusa explicitly uses the term build, and Limus explicitly prevents building in the relevant squares, boom, done, took us like ten seconds."


It is sad that I can only thumb up your post once, and it would probably be noticed if I started giving GeekGold bribes to everyone who expressed this sentiment.

That's how reading the rules for the powers is supposed to work, since the last 2% of combinations would have been 30 FAQ entries (not counting the unanticipated confusion). Much effort went into making it so that we didn't have more complex rules, such as placing blocks and building being an action that placed blocks. At one point Medusa's written rules might have been enough to turn you to stone.
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