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Doomtown: Reloaded» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Struggling to grasp opening strategy rss

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Fruit Eating Bear
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I'm quite new to D:R and CCGs in general, but I love the theme of this one so much. I absolutely want to love it, but I'm getting so frustrated at the learning curve. My current problem concerns the first couple of rounds. I use decks I find on DTDB and inevitably I run out of money and don't have the ability to do much of anything. I might have a setup of, say, three ghost rock and an outlay of two. If I lose the lowball I'm back to square one, with no money to put out deeds (and sometimes I get no deeds at all in my opening hand. I understand a huckster can help there, but still.)

There's a scarcity of how-to videos out there. I've watched as many as I can find, but I'm still none the wiser. What's your contingency plan for not having enough money and/or deeds to get a good start?
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Rauli Kettunen
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Fruit Eating Bear wrote:
I might have a setup of, say, three ghost rock and an outlay of two.


Yeah, don't do that. Start with cheaper people and less upkeep.
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soulblight
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Which decks did you netdeck?
 
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Fruit Eating Bear
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I have 2x base sets and the first 6 expansions. I used Thanee's sets that made four usable decks from the first three of these expansions. I also tried the recommended ones in the rules.
 
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soulblight
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I don't have those deck lists in front of me.

There must be some combination of dudes you can use in your starting posse that reduces upkeep. If not then you can alter the decks.
 
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Teeka
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Fruit Eating Bear wrote:
I have 2x base sets and the first 6 expansions. I used Thanee's sets that made four usable decks from the first three of these expansions. I also tried the recommended ones in the rules.

How often did you try the ones that come with the base set? I hardly found any real trouble with upkeep/money.
If you are in the process of learning, I advice just using those. They're not great, but they're all very playable.


Some beginner tips from someone who also had to learn from scratch, though:

- If you lose lowball on turn 1, you might want to lay low so you have money to play a good deed later.
It's totally ok if the first round doesn't go your way. Just play defense, pass, and let the other guy do what he wants (which probably isn't that much anyway).

- Use the discard option at sundown.
If you are in need of certain cards, try to play useless/harmless 0-cost cards just to get rid of them (so you can draw more cards at sundown).

- Don't start playing goods before you have a bit of income going.

- Yes sometimes you don't have any deeds in your opening hand. Nothing to do about that.
If it happens a lot, consider Travis Moone in your starting posse.

- Some decks actually don't play many deeds, they have different strategies. Have you checked how many there are in the decks you're using? Use the ones that have the most of them, so you can get past this point (instead of getting too frustrated).

Hope that helped a bit!

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Justin B.
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Fruit Eating Bear wrote:
I have 2x base sets and the first 6 expansions. I used Thanee's sets that made four usable decks from the first three of these expansions. I also tried the recommended ones in the rules.


To cover these in the opposite order: the recommended decks in the rules are less than great. I'm also not familiar with Thanee's sets, but I will say some decks generate income in nonintuitive ways and that may muddle things for a new pilot.

Cash is king, and a big question you face in any game with deck construction is opportunity cost. In deck construction with a fixed card amount, the concept is straight forward - every card you select is another card you can't include. Every additional copy of a card increases the likelihood you see it during play, but decreases the amount of options you may have (and somethings, like dudes or deeds, can become dead in your hand as the game progresses if they're already in play for you or in your boothill). You build a deck based off of what your victory condition is and how you get there (slide/control/kill, what have you) and select some card, but not others, accordingly.

When you actually play, you will face other opportunity costs. With 3 or 4 ghost rock, you might be able to: play a dude (with or without upkeep), improve a card already in play (goods/spells/improvements), or play a deed. Most actions are cheap, but they could also fall into this analysis. As before, ask yourself what your victory condition is and what will help you get there. If you're trying to win this turn via shootouts, paying for a deed that purely affects economy may not make sense. And, conversely, it doesn't make much sense to drop a "bomb" dude with high upkeep if you can't afford to keep them around for several days.
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Fruit Eating Bear
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Ah, maybe I should learn that just because I can play a card, sometimes it's better not to. It's sort of counter-intuitive to me. Usually in games you try to do as much as you can on your turn, but that seems not to be the case here.

I'll give it a go, but I'm not overly hopeful. I appreciate the time you took to reply though.
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Teeka
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Fruit Eating Bear wrote:
Ah, maybe I should learn that just because I can play a card, sometimes it's better not to. It's sort of counter-intuitive to me. Usually in games you try to do as much as you can on your turn, but that seems not to be the case here.

Oh this is definitely something to learn when playing games with limited resources, and I totally understand why it might feel counter-intuitive!

You should always focus on using the option that's going to help you best (including passing/waiting), not try to play everything that you draw.
If a card in your hand is not going to be helpful now, or next turn, just get rid of it. Even if it is a strong card, if you drew it too early it's just blocking your hand.
There are (usually) multiple copies of a card in your deck. Discard the one you can't play now, and wait for another to come along.

Also, when the game goes on for a number of rounds (especially if you discard/ditch cards and there's one or two shootouts), you can go through your entire deck.
At which point your discard pile will get reshuffled and you get a new chance to draw those strong cards.

Don't fight/take risks until you have some stuff in play that gives you a decent chance. As I said about losing lowball: learn to be ok with passing and waiting for your chance.
Remember, as long as you have enough influence, your opponent cannot win. Be patient!

Fruit Eating Bear wrote:
I'll give it a go, but I'm not overly hopeful.

Don't give up yet! It's a great game but it takes some getting used to.

I know you can handle all the little elements of Arkham Horror, so I'm 100% sure you can handle this game too. thumbsup It just needs a little time to 'click'.
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Eric Jome
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I have a variety of articles that may help you out;

https://rpggeek.com/thread/1206968/how-build-deck
https://rpggeek.com/thread/1215505/few-ghost-rock-more-travi...
https://rpggeek.com/thread/1171868/school-hard-knocks-lesson...

And from the distant past;

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/294184/choosing-starting-du...
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/294186/doomtown-deck-struct...
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/294183/beginners-guide-deck...
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/294185/deck-analysis-questi...
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Fruit Eating Bear
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Hi Eric,

Yep, I've read all them some time ago, and very good they are too!
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Eric Jome
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Fruit Eating Bear wrote:
I've read all them some time ago, and very good they are too!


So, if you're still having trouble perhaps a rule of thumb;

When picking a set of starting dudes, it's...

Upkeep > Influence > Shooting > Skills > Card Text

It is most important that your starting posse have at most 1 upkeep. It doesn't matter what else the cards offer. After upkeep, you should be sure you have three or four Influence. Then come trivial things like bullets, skills, and least important card text.

You should run about 10 Deeds all of which produce rock. You should never play a Dude with upkeep if you cannot reliably produce two more rock than you spend on upkeep in total. So only a handful of upkeep dudes in your deck.

A lot of the economic model in Reloaded never got a full redesign; I'm sorry for that. It's one of my primary regrets; I only got partway through the remodel.
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