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Subject: Maximum Level and retirement rss

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Zed Lovecraft
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Yesterday at Spiel I had a chance to play the game and check the components. There are a lot of boxes that contain the different new characters which come into play after a character at maximum level retires.
I forgot to ask: how long (how many mission) will it take a character approximately to reach retirement? Just want to know if my casual group will ever see one of those new characters

Thanks
 
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Antonio Caciolli
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Ashes001 wrote:
Yesterday at Spiel I had a chance to play the game and check the components. There are a lot of boxes that contain the different new characters which come into play after a character at maximum level retires.
I forgot to ask: how long (how many mission) will it take a character approximately to reach retirement? Just want to know if my casual group will ever see one of those new characters

Thanks


in another thread Isaac said you need about 15 scenarios before retire a character and you should reach more or less the 5th level before retirement

how is the game, give us your feedback :-)
 
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Chris McDonugh
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Retirement isn't based on reaching maximum level, it's based on achieving your personal quest. Examples we've seen have been experiencing a certain event after winning a particular scenario, getting 15 checkmarks from battle goals, killing enough of a few specific types of enemies, or completing enough of a given type of scenario. Isaac has said it will generally take 10 to 15 missions to retire, though presumably it depends on your personal goal and how easy it is to achieve.
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Paul Johnson
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KreenWarrior wrote:
Retirement isn't based on reaching maximum level, it's based on achieving your personal quest. Examples we've seen have been experiencing a certain event after winning a particular scenario, getting 15 checkmarks from battle goals, killing enough of a few specific types of enemies, or completing enough of a given type of scenario. Isaac has said it will generally take 10 to 15 missions to retire, though presumably it depends on your personal goal and how easy it is to achieve.
That said, there may be a personal quest to reach max level. Honestly, it would surprise me if there isn't one.
 
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Paul Glickman
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I'm curious - how many personal quests are there?
 
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Ben Ackland
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24, I believe. When you create a character, you draw two personal goals and keep one. Once you complete a goal, that goal is removed from the game forever. So it's possible to run out, in which case a character with no goal would be a lifelong mercenary and never retire.
 
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Paul Glickman
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So there's sort of a 24 maximum character?
 
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J Karrde
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You can restart and create new characters whenever you'd like. But the impression I get is that there will be no new things to unlock (via this method) after the 24 goals have been accomplished.

You can see in this image that career goals unlock new things, in the examples given new classes.
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Brandon Wickersham
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Thanks for the link to the career goals images. I read the last question in the thread, and I was like, "Hey, that's a great question". Then I see I wrote it a year ago, and nobody ever answered it. soblue
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Antonio Caciolli
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Paul G wrote:
So there's sort of a 24 maximum character?


there are 24 character goals, but only 11 classes to unlock (+6 starting classes) so some personal quest should not unlock a new character

also playing the same class two times (I believe is not possible consecutively) add something, because you start with an higher level and maybe you find some changed skill
 
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Isaac Childres
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Wickershamb wrote:
Thanks for the link to the career goals images. I read the last question in the thread, and I was like, "Hey, that's a great question". Then I see I wrote it a year ago, and nobody ever answered it. :soblue:

Those career goal images posted are a little old. At that time, it was actually possible to achieve the goal "Finding a Cure" after playing a single scenario. This quest and others like it have since been changed so that the time to complete them is much more normalized. You have to achieve a more long-term goal, and doing so then unlocks a chain of scenarios that you then must complete to finish the quest.
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Paul Glickman
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Cephalofair wrote:
Wickershamb wrote:
Thanks for the link to the career goals images. I read the last question in the thread, and I was like, "Hey, that's a great question". Then I see I wrote it a year ago, and nobody ever answered it. soblue

Those career goal images posted are a little old. At that time, it was actually possible to achieve the goal "Finding a Cure" after playing a single scenario. This quest and others like it have since been changed so that the time to complete them is much more normalized. You have to achieve a more long-term goal, and doing so then unlocks a chain of scenarios that you then must complete to finish the quest.


This... Is an excellent solution for what seemed like a serious problem. Excellent.
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Alex Almond
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What happens when you unlock a new character in regards to level?

Does the new character start at the same level as everybody else, or is he a newbie amongst the experienced existing chars?
 
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Paul Glickman
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Darkmancer wrote:
What happens when you unlock a new character in regards to level?

Does the new character start at the same level as everybody else, or is he a newbie amongst the experienced existing chars?


New characters start at the Prosperity level of Gloomhaven.
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Mathias Heilmann
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Paul G wrote:
Darkmancer wrote:
What happens when you unlock a new character in regards to level?

Does the new character start at the same level as everybody else, or is he a newbie amongst the experienced existing chars?


New characters start at the Prosperity level of Gloomhaven.

Actually that's a choice you can make. You can also start at level 1, or any other level below gloomhavens prosperity, if you so desire.
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Antonio Caciolli
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Heilz wrote:
Paul G wrote:
Darkmancer wrote:
What happens when you unlock a new character in regards to level?

Does the new character start at the same level as everybody else, or is he a newbie amongst the experienced existing chars?


New characters start at the Prosperity level of Gloomhaven.

Actually that's a choice you can make. You can also start at level 1, or any other level below gloomhavens prosperity, if you so desire.


nut you slow the other character because the XP are based on the scenario level and so on the average level of the party
 
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Mathias Heilmann
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Antonio8080 wrote:
Heilz wrote:
Paul G wrote:
Darkmancer wrote:
What happens when you unlock a new character in regards to level?

Does the new character start at the same level as everybody else, or is he a newbie amongst the experienced existing chars?


New characters start at the Prosperity level of Gloomhaven.

Actually that's a choice you can make. You can also start at level 1, or any other level below gloomhavens prosperity, if you so desire.


nut you slow the other character because the XP are based on the scenario level and so on the average level of the party
I guess. But as far as I understand it, there is no rush to max level anyway. You try to complete your personal goal.
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Antonio Caciolli
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Heilz wrote:
Antonio8080 wrote:
Heilz wrote:
Paul G wrote:
Darkmancer wrote:
What happens when you unlock a new character in regards to level?

Does the new character start at the same level as everybody else, or is he a newbie amongst the experienced existing chars?


New characters start at the Prosperity level of Gloomhaven.

Actually that's a choice you can make. You can also start at level 1, or any other level below gloomhavens prosperity, if you so desire.


nut you slow the other character because the XP are based on the scenario level and so on the average level of the party
I guess. But as far as I understand it, there is no rush to max level anyway. You try to complete your personal goal.


I don't know if there are goals based also on achievement related to XP (I hope not). I do not see any issue in starting at level 1, but if the prosperity is higher you can buy better items and the starting level decides also the starting gold. Personally, I think the game is designed to work better with an increasing level of starting characters proportional with the town proposerity. So you don't destroy the game but .... (just for discuss :-) )
 
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Jeremy Salinas
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Looks absurdly long to wait to see a new character enter the game. 10-15 scenarios? Most people aren't even going to play 10-15 games in total, let alone 95 Scenarios in all? My guess is that less than 1% of the people who own this game will ever get a new character let alone play even a portion of the scenarios.

It's way less Legacy than what I had originally expected. You basically have some stickers to that you put on enchantments, and some new cards when you level up. The only really hidden stuff are the scenarios and the classes with the tuck boxes.
 
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Paul Grogan
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There is certainly less "opening of boxes", but after our first session yesterday, it is definitely more "legacy" than just opening of boxes.

Before we left town on our first adventure, something happened. That something gave us a choice of A or B. We chose one of them. The restulting action meant that one card was removed from the city deck and random events, and a new card got added. So, right away, before the first scenario had even started, the world evolved. At some point in the future, that decision we made means that the new card that was added may or may not come up in future.

I'm expecting a lot of things like this as the campaign progresses. It's not just about opening new boxes; the way that the various decks evolve as the campaign goes on opens up the storylines and there appears to be a lot of side stories.

Oh, and after our first adventure - something else happened, which unlocked something else, this was chosen at random, so again, our world have already evolved in a few different ways, and we've only played one scenario
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Greg
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Drakkenstrike wrote:
Looks absurdly long to wait to see a new character enter the game. 10-15 scenarios? Most people aren't even going to play 10-15 games in total, let alone 95 Scenarios in all? My guess is that less than 1% of the people who own this game will ever get a new character let alone play even a portion of the scenarios.

It's way less Legacy than what I had originally expected. You basically have some stickers to that you put on enchantments, and some new cards when you level up. The only really hidden stuff are the scenarios and the classes with the tuck boxes.


That's quite a diss on not only the quality of the game, but also the nearly 5,000 people who backed this on Kickstarter, presuming they didn't know what they were backing.

To me, this is more of an RPG world building campaign game.

The very popular dungeon crawl Mice and Mystics has close to 30 scenarios between the three releases, and people want more content. Even in just the base game of 11 scenarios, people end up playing several of them over in order to get through them. Then there are other games like Imperial Assault or Descent etc. that people that are into that will play more than 10-15 times.

As far as the 95 scenarios in total for Gloomhaven, I believe that those are just the available ones, but due to the choose your own adventure type thing, that by choosing a certain path, you are going to bypass certain scenarios.

While this game may not be for some groups, it may be for others. It lists the time as 30/player, so for some that may only have 2 or 3 players, that's only an hour to an hour and a half per game and could easily get 2 games/scenarios done in a sitting.
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Antonio Caciolli
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PaulGrogan wrote:
There is certainly less "opening of boxes", but after our first session yesterday, it is definitely more "legacy" than just opening of boxes.

Before we left town on our first adventure, something happened. That something gave us a choice of A or B. We chose one of them. The restulting action meant that one card was removed from the city deck and random events, and a new card got added. So, right away, before the first scenario had even started, the world evolved. At some point in the future, that decision we made means that the new card that was added may or may not come up in future.

I'm expecting a lot of things like this as the campaign progresses. It's not just about opening new boxes; the way that the various decks evolve as the campaign goes on opens up the storylines and there appears to be a lot of side stories.

Oh, and after our first adventure - something else happened, which unlocked something else, this was chosen at random, so again, our world have already evolved in a few different ways, and we've only played one scenario


How much it takes for playing this first session? How long is a scenario?
 
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Jeremy Salinas
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Hahma wrote:
Drakkenstrike wrote:
Looks absurdly long to wait to see a new character enter the game. 10-15 scenarios? Most people aren't even going to play 10-15 games in total, let alone 95 Scenarios in all? My guess is that less than 1% of the people who own this game will ever get a new character let alone play even a portion of the scenarios.

It's way less Legacy than what I had originally expected. You basically have some stickers to that you put on enchantments, and some new cards when you level up. The only really hidden stuff are the scenarios and the classes with the tuck boxes.


That's quite a diss on not only the quality of the game, but also the nearly 5,000 people who backed this on Kickstarter, presuming they didn't know what they were backing.

To me, this is more of an RPG world building campaign game.

The very popular dungeon crawl Mice and Mystics has close to 30 scenarios between the three releases, and people want more content. Even in just the base game of 11 scenarios, people end up playing several of them over in order to get through them. Then there are other games like Imperial Assault or Descent etc. that people that are into that will play more than 10-15 times.

As far as the 95 scenarios in total for Gloomhaven, I believe that those are just the available ones, but due to the choose your own adventure type thing, that by choosing a certain path, you are going to bypass certain scenarios.

While this game may not be for some groups, it may be for others. It lists the time as 30/player, so for some that may only have 2 or 3 players, that's only an hour to an hour and a half per game and could easily get 2 games/scenarios done in a sitting.


I'm not dissing it at all - in fact I backed the game via Kickstarter as well. I'm just saying that it's a lot of material that most people won't even get through, and a long time to wait to unlock a character. Gameplay matters most here of course, so everything will really depend on how good the game actually is in the end. SeaFall is a perfect example....if the gameplay isn't solid, then people aren't going to be willing to trudge through content in order to unlock material - so my point is simply that 10-15 scenarios is a long time to wait.
 
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Greg
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Drakkenstrike wrote:
Hahma wrote:
Drakkenstrike wrote:
Looks absurdly long to wait to see a new character enter the game. 10-15 scenarios? Most people aren't even going to play 10-15 games in total, let alone 95 Scenarios in all? My guess is that less than 1% of the people who own this game will ever get a new character let alone play even a portion of the scenarios.

It's way less Legacy than what I had originally expected. You basically have some stickers to that you put on enchantments, and some new cards when you level up. The only really hidden stuff are the scenarios and the classes with the tuck boxes.


That's quite a diss on not only the quality of the game, but also the nearly 5,000 people who backed this on Kickstarter, presuming they didn't know what they were backing.

To me, this is more of an RPG world building campaign game.

The very popular dungeon crawl Mice and Mystics has close to 30 scenarios between the three releases, and people want more content. Even in just the base game of 11 scenarios, people end up playing several of them over in order to get through them. Then there are other games like Imperial Assault or Descent etc. that people that are into that will play more than 10-15 times.

As far as the 95 scenarios in total for Gloomhaven, I believe that those are just the available ones, but due to the choose your own adventure type thing, that by choosing a certain path, you are going to bypass certain scenarios.

While this game may not be for some groups, it may be for others. It lists the time as 30/player, so for some that may only have 2 or 3 players, that's only an hour to an hour and a half per game and could easily get 2 games/scenarios done in a sitting.


I'm not dissing it at all - in fact I backed the game via Kickstarter as well. I'm just saying that it's a lot of material that most people won't even get through, and a long time to wait to unlock a character. Gameplay matters most here of course, so everything will really depend on how good the game actually is in the end. SeaFall is a perfect example....if the gameplay isn't solid, then people aren't going to be willing to trudge through content in order to unlock material - so my point is simply that 10-15 scenarios is a long time to wait.


I think that guessing that less than 1% of people will will play this 10-15 times (time to unlock a new character), is guessing that the gameplay will be weak. People backing it should have known that it will take a while to retire a character in order to unlock a new one. So I would hope that they would know that you're not going to unlock all available characters in 10-15 games. So knowing that, I would think that the only thing keeping most backers from at least unlocking one new character, would be crappy gameplay or change in personal situation.

I understand that SeaFall has been a huge disappointment for some people so far, and that may alter expectations of legacy style games from now on. So we'll just have to see how the gameplay is in Gloomhaven.

I can only speak for myself, but my excitement for Gloomhaven isn't symply about opening up new boxes to see what kind of surprises are inside. I'm looking forward to the RPG feel of a dungeon crawl where players are going to have different personal goals. I look forward to the evolving world and different paths people will take. My expectations are based on anticipating solid gameplay. It doesn't have to be game of the year solid for me to enjoy it. But if it sucks, then I'll be the second to admit it
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