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David Goulette
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Two questions:

1) Can you roll first and then decide whether to take the Bank Loan?

2) (Really my main question) Do you need to pass the test (i.e. get at least one success) to take a Bank Loan? Or can you take the Bank Loan even if you roll zero successes?


Edit:
Let me add that I am new to the game and I think the Aquire Assets action is very sloppily written. I do not think it fits the complete definition of "TEST" that the game lays out. And there are inconsistent rules with regards to the interactions with Mountains of Madness rules. But that is for a different forum:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1655042/can-you-use-success...

 
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Kenneth H
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1) Yes.

2) No. Yes.
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David Goulette
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Flamethrower49 wrote:
1) Yes.

2) No. Yes.


Thank you! I think you are correct. (At least I think that is the ruling that makes the most thematic sense.)

But then this means that Aquire Assets is more like it's own special test because there is no language like "if pass then do X else do Y". You just roll and use the successes that you rolled to gain assets. If you roll zero you have zero to use. (Note by-the-way that I did not say "spend" successes to acquire assets since the rules explicitly don't use that word.) "Will Test" and "Strength Test" are called out as being special more clearly.



 
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Trevor Wilson
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If you choose to attempt to make a roll to acquire assets - you roll against influence and may then select assets by cost from the assets available up to and including the the value of the number of successes rolled.

That's quite clear really, and although the above is not a quote from the rules I do think that they are clear enough.
 
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David Goulette
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The Wrong One wrote:
If you choose to attempt to make a roll to acquire assets - you roll against influence and may then select assets by cost from the assets available up to and including the the value of the number of successes rolled.

That's quite clear really, and although the above is not a quote from the rules I do think that they are clear enough.


What you describe is clear. The issue I have is that they are not clear about whether you can use the bank loan if you roll zero successes. (My other complaint is an inconsistency with the Mountains of Madness rule for travelling to the outpost. The base game rule should probably say "spend" successes to gain assets. I have a link above to that discussion.)
 
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Krzysiek Domański
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anaturalharmonic wrote:
Can you take the Bank Loan even if you roll zero successes?
Yes, you can.
 
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Davy Ashleydale
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Yes, I don't remember how it's worded exactly, but the intent is that after you determine how many successes you rolled -- zero to whatever -- you can take a Bank Loan. If you take a Bank Loan, you then add 2 to the previous number of successes that you had determined, bringing it to 2 to whatever+2.

But I know that the Acquire Assets action doesn't say anything like: Perform an Influence Test. If you succeed, then count the number of successes... The Influence test that you perform for the Acquire Assets action doesn't have a "success" or "failure" aspect to it.
 
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David Goulette
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randomlife wrote:
Yes, I don't remember how it's worded exactly, but the intent is that after you determine how many successes you rolled -- zero to whatever -- you can take a Bank Loan. If you take a Bank Loan, you then add 2 to the previous number of successes that you had determined, bringing it to 2 to whatever+2.


I agree that the intent is likely this and it makes sense thematically.

randomlife wrote:

But I know that the Acquire Assets action doesn't say anything like: Perform an Influence Test. If you succeed, then count the number of successes... The Influence test that you perform for the Acquire Assets action doesn't have a "success" or "failure" aspect to it.


Agreed. (I just replied to your comment over on the other thread with a similar replay as below! haha )

But an issue that I am pointing out is that the Aquire Assets rule explicitly refers you to the definition of "TEST": on page 12:

Quote:
If the investigator is on a City space, he may attempt to
acquire Asset cards from the reserve. He tests his Influence
(handshake symbol) by rolling dice and gains Assets of his choice from the reserve with total value equal to or less than the number of
successes rolled (see “Tests” on page 12).


And then the "Test" rule on page 12 says:

Quote:
If he rolls at least one success (a “5” or a “6”), he passes the
test. If he does not roll any successes, he fails the test.


But, as you stated, there is no such thing as "Pass" or "Fail" in an Aquire Asset action (or a Will Test, or a Strength Test, for that matter).

They very carefully defined Test, in the rule book but then there are three uses of "Test" in the rule book that (in part) contradict the definition of "Test."

(I swear I am not as much of a rules lawyer as I am sounding right now, I just wish rules were written better to make it easier for new players to learn. My favorite FFG game, Lord of The Rings: LCG, unfortunately required a looooong FAQ because of a somewhat sloppy rulebook.)
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Davy Ashleydale
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Yeah, there are a couple of Monsters that have affects that say things like, "During Combat, if your Will check fails, Combat ends and you can't proceed to the Strength check." Which has the weird effect that you may roll 1 success and take damage from a Horror 2 monster, but the Will check is still considered to have "succeeded" because of the definition of a Test -- you rolled at least one success. It just feels like failing because you took damage.
 
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David Goulette
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randomlife wrote:
Yeah, there are a couple of Monsters that have affects that say things like, "During Combat, if your Will check fails, Combat ends and you can't proceed to the Strength check." Which has the weird effect that you may roll 1 success and take damage from a Horror 2 monster, but the Will check is still considered to have "succeeded" because of the definition of a Test -- you rolled at least one success. It just feels like failing because you took damage.


Interesting. I am new to the game and haven't experienced these monsters yet. That would certainly underscore my issue. I will look out for those.

In general I have no issue house ruling on the fly for good thematic sense. But when I am learning a game I am not sure if I am just missing something obvious! Haha. So I start by trying to read the rules carefully and literally until I have a good feel for the game.
 
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