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Subject: Barbarossa scoring rss

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Karl W
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Uppsala
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Got this game some months ago. I have managed to play the Barbarossa campaign 3 times and none of the other. All 3 games as Germans vs a experienced player. Of course I failed in many ways. Like not optimising advances in blitzes, once let myself beeing cut OOS, attacking cities/swamps and just playing non economical. Still I read people RARELY win as nazis in the S41 scenario. I'm not surprised as the handicap seems totally of the wall.

Beeing new to wargaming I don't know what's OK and not. But what is the point of having a scenario that is totally unbalanced? It's hard to measure your effort for both sides! I could understand the win criteria had to be chosen like that to account for some if-statemeets. I could understand it has to do with some historical measurement of the effort, by the Germans, in succeeding with their advance. But still - why not atleast include a balanced scoring. That would make the game more exciting and make the game more attractive to newcomers.

And last, has the community created some house rule to fix this?
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fistOfKross wrote:
Still I read people RARELY win as nazis in the S41 scenario. I'm not surprised as the handicap seems totally of the wall.

Having been on the losing end as the Russians, I disagree it's off the wall.

Also, if you look at the setup for the next scenario, you'll see the extent of the historical German advance.
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Karl W
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I've found testaments of nazI victories too, but they are labeled sensations. Here, on the forums. I would like empircal balance, not anecdotal evidence. But maybe its not the designers goal to present an equally hard challange. Still, I think the game could offer it to cater to more than history driven gamers. Or at least state that Germans lose 1/8 games.
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Rusty McFisticuffs
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Arcata
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To answer the "has the community created some house rule to fix this" question, I don't agree that it's broken. Sure, Axis victories are hard to achieve, but that makes them all the more memorable & awesome when they do happen. I don't think there's anything wrong with one side taking more experience than the other to play well.

(I also do not agree with the "that would make the game more exciting and make the game more attractive to newcomers" statement.)

If you really think it's a problem, it's easy to fix; bid for the Axis handicap. First, though, I think you should switch sides and let the experienced player show you how it's done with the Axis.
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John Spicer
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I've found the scenario balanced in over 20 years of playing it, so long as you have two equally experienced (or inexperienced) players.

There is a lot of subtlety to playing either side, and no one way that guarantees a win. So as per other threads if the Russians defend en-masse in front of Leningrad and Moscow then take the Ukraine quickly and eat up all the Soviet units in the open terrain. You can take enough PP's and destroy enough units to get a marginal win.

What you can't do is have an 'I must take Leningrad' approach as the Germans. There are broad principles, and then you have to exploit what your opponent does (or even better anticipate what he is going to try to do).

Generally two even players will get a draw or a marginal win for one side or the other. As one of the other posts says, if you get more it's something to celebrate!

It takes a good few games to get the hang of it, and there are a lot of players out there at all levels of experience (I use vassal and can find plenty). So stick with it, even after 20 years I keep coming back to this game.

John
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