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Subject: Replayability. A few comments on Earth Reborn. rss

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Ignatius MP
Spain
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Hey guys,


I have been seeing that almost everybody is amazed with the game, about its replayability. However, after several year, and lately several games in the SAGS; I must say that despite the "customizable" games the trend is only one.

I mean, the board customization tends to be always the same, the characters that players choose also, the equipment too. From my point of view there is a trend which makes the game far from dynamic, and they leave a feeling of the same.

The fact that you can choose everything from the begining is the problem I guess. There is no random effect in there, which forces the players to adapt their elections depending on different initial configurations.

I do love the game, but wow! I was expecting a game of games, of thousend situations, but it's not that much.

I also wanted to mention that the rulebook is not that hard, there are several games without any tutorial with the same learning curve, and in fact, I think that such tutorial was preventing the players to play it because they were exhausted even before to play the game.

And the game is unforgiving, a misstep and you are out of the game.

Do you have also this feeling??? I feel like crazy because I have never read it before, and looks that people are happy with the replay value.
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Humulus Lupulus
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The two factions goal cards are random, and certainly change the dynamic. But if the players are choosing the same characters and the same map tiles then...STOP DOING THAT if you're complaining about replayability. Seems silly to me.
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Phil Triest
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ritter wrote:
Hey guys,


I have been seeing that almost everybody is amazed with the game, about its replayability. However, after several year, and lately several games in the SAGS; I must say that despite the "customizable" games the trend is only one.

I mean, the board customization tends to be always the same, the characters that players choose also, the equipment too. From my point of view there is a trend which makes the game far from dynamic, and they leave a feeling of the same.

The fact that you can choose everything from the begining is the problem I guess. There is no random effect in there, which forces the players to adapt their elections depending on different initial configurations.

I do love the game, but wow! I was expecting a game of games, of thousend situations, but it's not that much.

I also wanted to mention that the rulebook is not that hard, there are several games without any tutorial with the same learning curve, and in fact, I think that such tutorial was preventing the players to play it because they were exhausted even before to play the game.

And the game is unforgiving, a misstep and you are out of the game.

Do you have also this feeling??? I feel like crazy because I have never read it before, and looks that people are happy with the replay value.


I like ER but I have found a game that does it all better: Infinity. Yes it is a miniatures game but damn it is amazing!
 
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Tristan Brunet
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philtrees wrote:
ritter wrote:
Hey guys,


I have been seeing that almost everybody is amazed with the game, about its replayability. However, after several year, and lately several games in the SAGS; I must say that despite the "customizable" games the trend is only one.

I mean, the board customization tends to be always the same, the characters that players choose also, the equipment too. From my point of view there is a trend which makes the game far from dynamic, and they leave a feeling of the same.

The fact that you can choose everything from the begining is the problem I guess. There is no random effect in there, which forces the players to adapt their elections depending on different initial configurations.

I do love the game, but wow! I was expecting a game of games, of thousend situations, but it's not that much.

I also wanted to mention that the rulebook is not that hard, there are several games without any tutorial with the same learning curve, and in fact, I think that such tutorial was preventing the players to play it because they were exhausted even before to play the game.

And the game is unforgiving, a misstep and you are out of the game.

Do you have also this feeling??? I feel like crazy because I have never read it before, and looks that people are happy with the replay value.


I like ER but I have found a game that does it all better: Infinity. Yes it is a miniatures game but damn it is amazing!


 I think this comment reflect one of the main problem with ER. A lot of people seem to think it is a skirmish game. It is not (well, not only...). It is a narrative sandbox. If you approach the game (and the SAGS) with the mindset of a miniature skirmish player (get the most lethal characters for the lowest points, get a tactical advantage for fighting only when setting the board...), then you're missing the point, and missing a lot of the mindgames which happen at the beginning steps of the SAGS (setting of the board and choice of your force). There are many ways to get points in the game (through items, through tiles...), many different goals, there are many things you can do, many ways to interact with the board and your opponents, and a lot of them have nothing to do with killing the opposing team.

In fact, I'm quite sure the game lives or die with groupthink, which is quite uncommon for a game with gun-wielding miniatures. The scope of the game is so broad, and sometimes so unexpected, that it is completely possible to miss it completely, or leave it at the background, and enjoy only a part of the experience the game has to offer.

So sure, ER is not a game for everyone, it doesn't convey an experience that everyone will enjoy, and everyone will be willing to explore (I want gun action !!). There are clearly things that a skirmish miniature game like Infinity will do better. As far as skirmishes go.

But as far as I know (it's been a long time since I played Infinity, so my memories could be blurry), you'll end up with a far more constrained narrative when playing such game (no search mechanic, no torture mechanic, the terrain doesn't offer as many different effect as it does in ER, etc...). So, different things for different experiences.
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GeekInsight
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I think a lot of this would be addressed if the players had alternate versions of the characters to choose from.

As it is, the NORAD player is almost certain to bring all four of his figures. So the Salemite basically knows what to expect. But what if you had different versions? Perhaps you had to choose between a Vasquez that could charm Einstein and a Vasquez that could get auto-hits when she used range. Or between a Bolter that could get more CP and a Bolter that allowed you to use extra CP in different ways.

You couldn't bring both of one character, of course, but that deviation would really mix things up and add something to both the gameplay and the scenario generation.

I'd love to see a little mini-expansion like that at some point.
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Andrii Chabykin
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It just need more scenarios from creators or someone interested in this game. Desperately. The game is awesome. A would also like an expansion and I don't even care how ridiculous it sounds
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Chris Lear
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Chabster wrote:
It just need more scenarios from creators or someone interested in this game. Desperately. The game is awesome. A would also like an expansion and I don't even care how ridiculous it sounds


There's a further tragedy here. Ludically created an excellent online scenario generator, and a web site for sharing fan-made scenarios, as well as some 4-player scenarios. That whole site got neglected, and in the end the scenario builder just went offline. So although in theory fan-made scenarios could still happen, it's pretty clear that the best chance has gone.
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MLeis
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ritter wrote:
I think that such tutorial was preventing the players to play it because they were exhausted even before to play the game.
+1!
 
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Phil Triest
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Paptimus wrote:
philtrees wrote:
ritter wrote:
Hey guys,


I have been seeing that almost everybody is amazed with the game, about its replayability. However, after several year, and lately several games in the SAGS; I must say that despite the "customizable" games the trend is only one.

I mean, the board customization tends to be always the same, the characters that players choose also, the equipment too. From my point of view there is a trend which makes the game far from dynamic, and they leave a feeling of the same.

The fact that you can choose everything from the begining is the problem I guess. There is no random effect in there, which forces the players to adapt their elections depending on different initial configurations.

I do love the game, but wow! I was expecting a game of games, of thousend situations, but it's not that much.

I also wanted to mention that the rulebook is not that hard, there are several games without any tutorial with the same learning curve, and in fact, I think that such tutorial was preventing the players to play it because they were exhausted even before to play the game.

And the game is unforgiving, a misstep and you are out of the game.

Do you have also this feeling??? I feel like crazy because I have never read it before, and looks that people are happy with the replay value.


I like ER but I have found a game that does it all better: Infinity. Yes it is a miniatures game but damn it is amazing!


 I think this comment reflect one of the main problem with ER. A lot of people seem to think it is a skirmish game. It is not (well, not only...). It is a narrative sandbox. If you approach the game (and the SAGS) with the mindset of a miniature skirmish player (get the most lethal characters for the lowest points, get a tactical advantage for fighting only when setting the board...), then you're missing the point, and missing a lot of the mindgames which happen at the beginning steps of the SAGS (setting of the board and choice of your force). There are many ways to get points in the game (through items, through tiles...), many different goals, there are many things you can do, many ways to interact with the board and your opponents, and a lot of them have nothing to do with killing the opposing team.

In fact, I'm quite sure the game lives or die with groupthink, which is quite uncommon for a game with gun-wielding miniatures. The scope of the game is so broad, and sometimes so unexpected, that it is completely possible to miss it completely, or leave it at the background, and enjoy only a part of the experience the game has to offer.

So sure, ER is not a game for everyone, it doesn't convey an experience that everyone will enjoy, and everyone will be willing to explore (I want gun action !!). There are clearly things that a skirmish miniature game like Infinity will do better. As far as skirmishes go.

But as far as I know (it's been a long time since I played Infinity, so my memories could be blurry), you'll end up with a far more constrained narrative when playing such game (no search mechanic, no torture mechanic, the terrain doesn't offer as many different effect as it does in ER, etc...). So, different things for different experiences.


Hahaha. The Infinity narrative in every game will blow your mind my friend. Give it a try and find out. Check it out for yourself:
 
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Ignatius MP
Spain
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I do love the game, and obviously an expansion would be perfect for it in order to extend its life; but despite the random objectives, they are easily known and don't change the gameplay that much.

The point is also that I do not think either that there should be pecreated scenarios made by fans or designers, the SAGS itself should be somehow enough. Some random effect would be the best weapon in my opinion, or some limitation, no an expansion itself. Maybe some of you could have already experimented such situation and applied some patch for it.

About picking same tiles, weapons and characters, I feel it normal; as the openings in chess games. The replayability should be in the structural composition of the game, rather than in the willing of the players to have it.

That Infinity looks to me "too much", I will take a look more in depth but it does not look the thing that I would wonder.

ER is a great game, but maybe, they didn't manage it in the best way.
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