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Star Trek: Ascendancy» Forums » Rules

Subject: Warp situations rss

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k c
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While reading some of the other threads on Warp/Impulse movement. I have come across these movement situations that made me stop and think. I wanted to ask what others think about these maneuvers:

1. Not declaring your destination. I do not see anywhere that you have to declare you destination when creating a space lane. This question comes up when trying to connect to an existing system that requires a specific lane value. I believe you can roll the die, and if you get the wrong size space lane, you can still place it and go somewhere else. Just because everyone knows you were attempting to connect to a specific system when rolling the lane die, does not mean you are obligated to go there after you roll.

2. Connecting to an existing System that you cannot enter/pass, or do not intend to.
From the rules as I understand it, you could roll the lane die, and connect the new lane to a system you could not enter/pass, or even have no intention of entering. Maybe you just want to control where and how the lane gets created to deny it to your opponents. This has to be allowed, otherwise you could not connect to a rival system, then stop just outside the system before you attack.

3. Reversing course while at Warp in a lane? The rulebook says you can reverse course while moving at impulse, (step onto a new space lane, reverse coarse, and step off). What about Warp? My guess is that the rules do not intend for you to be able to do this.
If you have enough warp tokens/icons, should you be allowed to reverse course after entering a space lane you didn't like?
It seems that if you entered a new space lane (while exiting warp), then turned around and went back to the system you just left, it would cost you 1 warp token/icon, as you traveled one system. If this is legal, then if you had 5 warp tokens/icons on a ship, you could roll the lane die up to 5 times hoping for the lane value you wanted.

4. Getting rival permission before passing through. The rulebook states you cannot take back your move if a rival denies you passage. It seems like most people would ask permission before they even tried to move. I play it that even if you ask beforehand, you have to commit to the move, then stop your ship/fleet adjacent to the blocked sector, and formally ask permission. The rival player is absolutely free to lie beforehand, then deny passage during the move. How do you play it?
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James J

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My take.

1) No, you don't have to declare a destination. The only time your position is checked before arriving is when you try to pass a peaceful rival and must ask for permission. Where you go past them is entirely up to you and can change right up to the second you drop out of warp.

2)You can exit warp at any point in a space lane, so this is fine. Place the lane to connect the systems and then stop anywhere along it's length.

3)No, coming out of warp is a deceleration move. It doesn't allow for course changes or reversing direction. You can only do that at impulse. If you are warping across the map and want to test the lane, stop in the first sector of the space lane you just placed. Your next command can be to impulse off it and back on.

4)This is one I was thinking of starting a thread about. I'm kind of curious how others play it. My thinking was that I will set a destination in mind and then ask for permission to pass. If I am denied, I have to stop adjacent to the blockade. When my group played it, they preferred a more lenient approach (like yours) that allowed them to discuss passing a rival first, and if they got permission they began their move. But then the rival could deny and block them (ie, they lied about letting them pass so they'd waste the move and end up adjacent). I'm wondering how other people play it. Do you allow a sort of "soft negotiations" first? Realistically, you probably would feel their government out about it, but nothing they say is written in stone once you actually reach the border.
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Angelus Seniores
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1) correct, you just choose a direction to lay down the new spacelane but you can swing it around for the actual connection to a system. the important part is that you cant swing the spacelane over another spacelane so you would be limited by the position you choose aming the other spacelanes.

2) you can choose where to stop in a spacelane, but you would have to declare so before laying it out. ie if you intend to go into the system at the other end, then thats where you must go or stop just before it if denied passage. its all in the declaration of your move. the idea is you dont know what you'll find until you get there, so allowing to change your mind after rolling the spacelane or after being denied passage goes against the spirit of the game.

3) at warp you cant reverse course. you have to exit warp to stop the current move, then enter it again to go back the way you came, so you cant test spacelanes endlessly this way. best is to use impulse (one of the few reasons to choose impulse over warp so better keep it this way).

4) you can indeed discuss passage before moving, but your rival can still deny passage at the moment you arrive there. though gamewise this would be a diplomatic incident and may result in a player taking steps because of it (taking back a trade agreement, going to war, exhausting an opponent's tech etc.) players choose how much double-crossing they allow. remember it could have been the moving player that was lying about his true destination.
i feel this is the level of player interaction that makes this game so interesting.
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k c
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Angelus, what is your reasoning for requiring a player to declare they are stopping before the space lane is placed down? I didn't find any rules requiring that. Why could not the player decide to stop in a space lane after it was rolled and placed?

The simplified rule I go by is that if you roll the lane dice, you are committed to that new lane (whether stopping in it, passing through, etc).
 
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Craig S.
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kcrandall15 wrote:
Angelus, what is your reasoning for requiring a player to declare they are stopping before the space lane is placed down? I didn't find any rules requiring that. Why could not the player decide to stop in a space lane after it was rolled and placed?


Yeah, there really is no basis for claiming that you have to declare anything.

Quote:
The simplified rule I go by is that if you roll the lane dice, you are committed to that new lane (whether stopping in it, passing through, etc).


I dont think so. You can roll for lane length and, if you don't like it, decide to stop in the system before it and abandon the lane. That would end your movement, though.

I don't see any reason you can't roll for lane length first, then decide to either connect it to an existing system, flip a new system and explore it, end movement somewhere in the new lane, or end movement and abandon the new lane entirely.
 
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James J

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We now have two warp threads debating the interpretation. Heh.

You added another option, Craig, which I think is far too lenient, however. Rolling a lane and then choosing to stop in the system prior to that would not be allowed. Simply for the fact that you cannot reverse course in warp, and rolling the lane only happens when you commit to entering it (ie, it doesn't exist until a ship is physically there). At the very least, you'd have to stop in the first sector of that new lane (assuming you want to ultimately impulse out and back in to re-roll it).

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Craig S.
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japester1 wrote:
We now have two warp threads debating the interpretation. Heh.

You added another option, Craig, which I think is far too lenient, however. Rolling a lane and then choosing to stop in the system prior to that would not be allowed. Simply for the fact that you cannot reverse course in warp, and rolling the lane only happens when you commit to entering it (ie, it doesn't exist until a ship is physically there). At the very least, you'd have to stop in the first sector of that new lane (assuming you want to ultimately impulse out and back in to re-roll it).



OK, I see the logic in this. I would agree.
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Donald Jensen

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csouth154 wrote:
I dont think so. You can roll for lane length and, if you don't like it, decide to stop in the system before it and abandon the lane. That would end your movement, though.

I would disagree with this somewhat. The only time you would role for the new space lane is if you are intending to enter it. You then enter the new space lane and can stop anywhere in the lane or continue to a system beyond the lane, but you cannot reverse and reenter the system prior to the new lane because you are at warp. You could do as you suggest if moving at impulse and have enough movement remaining.
 
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James J

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I'm actually glad we are all debating how to interpret the overly-simple warp rules. When I first read them, they simply would not gel in my brain. Now I know why.

Luckily, I don't think GF9 or the game designers will leave us guessing for long.
 
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James J

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I found the answers!

It was practically staring me in the face. Dur.

Page 14 of the rules talks about making connections with floating systems. It states that you can roll the lane to make a connection, and if you don't get the length you want--and you are traveling at warp--you have the option of stopping in the new space lane or continuing on to discover a new system. It also mentions that if you are attempting the connection at impulse, you can back off the new lane and try again.

That's conclusive to me. No need to declare if you are stopping short in a new lane before rolling for length. And no reversing out of that new lane once you've rolled it and are exiting warp. You are committed to at least entering the first sector of the new lane.
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japester1 wrote:
I found the answers!

It also mentions that if you are attempting the connection at impulse, you can back off the new lane and try again.



Based on this, I would interpret the mechanics playing out like this:

1) Starship is on Sherman's Planet and wants to create a Space Lane in a new direction.

2) Player exhausts 1 Command Token to move the starship onto a Space Lane

3) Player rolls the Space Lane die to determine length of the lane. For this example, Player rolls a "4."

4) Player does not want the "4" to remain, he moves onto the first sector of the space lane. He moves immediately back to Sherman's Planet with the 2nd sector of movement from Impulse Travel.

Essentially...it costs 1 Command Token to send a probe out if you don't like the results.

Is this how you see it at Impulse?



Now at Warp Speed...

1) Player has a ship at Warp "on" Sherman's Planet.

2) Player wants to chart a new space lane and exhausts a Command Token to bring the ship out of Warp.

3) Player rolls a the Space Lane dice and rolls a "4."

4) Player puts the 4 Space Lane down and has two options...
1) Exits from warp on the system he randomly draws
2) Exits warp on the last sector of the 4 sector space lane (not sure if there would be a reason to do this, but the option exists?)

5) If Player decides to enter the system, he braves the hazard and draws from the Exploration deck (assuming it is not a Phenomenon).

Correct?
 
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James J

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GreenMan2814 wrote:
japester1 wrote:
I found the answers!

It also mentions that if you are attempting the connection at impulse, you can back off the new lane and try again.



Based on this, I would interpret the mechanics playing out like this:

1) Starship is on Sherman's Planet and wants to create a Space Lane in a new direction.

2) Player exhausts 1 Command Token to move the starship onto a Space Lane

3) Player rolls the Space Lane die to determine length of the lane. For this example, Player rolls a "4."

4) Player does not want the "4" to remain, he moves onto the first sector of the space lane. He moves immediately back to Sherman's Planet with the 2nd sector of movement from Impulse Travel.

Essentially...it costs 1 Command Token to send a probe out if you don't like the results.

Is this how you see it at Impulse?



Now at Warp Speed...

1) Player has a ship at Warp "on" Sherman's Planet.

2) Player wants to chart a new space lane and exhausts a Command Token to bring the ship out of Warp.

3) Player rolls a the Space Lane dice and rolls a "4."

4) Player puts the 4 Space Lane down and has two options...
1) Exits from warp on the system he randomly draws
2) Exits warp on the last sector of the 4 sector space lane (not sure if there would be a reason to do this, but the option exists?)

5) If Player decides to enter the system, he braves the hazard and draws from the Exploration deck (assuming it is not a Phenomenon).

Correct?


Your Impulse example is correct. After you move back to Sherman's Planet the new lane would disappear, and you could try again with another Command.

Your Warp example is almost correct. During step 4 you also have the option of stopping on any sector in the new space lane, not just the last one. For example, if you didn't want that length of space lane then you could stop in the very first sector. With your next Command, you could Impulse back to Sherman's Planet, discard the lane, and with your second point of Impulse movement movement roll a new lane and move one sector onto it.

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