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Subject: Why non-MOBA theme? rss

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Nick Dotzenrod
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First, I really hope someone from Riot Games sees this post so I can get an official response.

During my senior year in college, I visited a Riot games career event on my campus. During the event, one of the questions I asked was if Riot games would ever make a board game. The responses I received were rather varied, one member saying there would be really no chance, whereas another said it was possible.

Well, I guess they were working on a board game all along...

In 2016, we have seen kickstarter come out with various MOBA style board games:

Guardians of Atlantishttps://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/172965/guards-atlantis-t...
Battle Arena Show https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/175183/battle-arena-show
LOAD: League of Ancient Defenders https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/195547/load-league-ancie...

After looking at these games, none seemed to truly capture the MOBA style I was used to in (disclaimer) DOTA (though lets be honest, LoL and DOTA are the same).

The only published MOBA game I know of that was successful is Rum and Bones, which now will have a Second edition. https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/196202/rum-bones-second-...

This game also, however, seemed to lack key elements of DOTA/LoL.

When I heard Riot games was coming out with a board game, I was super excited! Finally, I thought, a board game that will capture the MOBA game genre by the guys who know it so well.

As many of you know, however, Mechs vs. Minions is nothing like a MOBA game...

So, my question, why did they decide to do this? Why not create a board game version of LoL?

Did they just think it would be pointless to create a board game version of a video game?

To me, I would much rather play a board game DOTA/LoL with my friends. But maybe I am in a major minority...



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Abel Kim
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I can't remember their specific response, but i think they said something like they have lol if you want to play a moba.

I'm all for this approach btw because it diversified what Riot can offer.
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Kain
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Buy Rum and Bones and see why.

Moba Style game isn't that great.
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Josh Lapuz
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They said they didn't want to make League of Legends The Board Game because they already have League of Legends the computer game. I would like to see a MOBA board game, however.
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Chris Cantrell
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Yeah, whatever we work on, we want it to feel inspired. Don't get me wrong, I love League. But the experience for me to play League is best at my PC. Why give you a worse league experience just to make it as a boardgame? I'd rather us try to make the best boardgame we can.

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Stefan Lopuszanski
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Riot Kades wrote:
Yeah, whatever we work on, we want it to feel inspired. Don't get me wrong, I love League. But the experience for me to play League is best at my PC. Why give you a worse league experience just to make it as a boardgame? I'd rather us try to make the best boardgame we can.



Similar conclusion I came to. I was working on an AoS / "MOBA" board game for a long, long time (https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/659476/league-legends-board...). But nothing captured the feel like I wanted it to and was just a pale imitation. I did a lot of iterations and came up with a system that kind of worked, but it really only mimicked one or two aspects of the genre and just felt hollow. Not to knock on the other games out there, but I don't think they do the best job capturing the feel of the genre either.

I was also working on a semi-Blood Bowl Team Manager style game that had some elements of the pick/ban of Champions in LoL. But that also didn't work out as well as I had hoped.

Really glad Riot went in the direction they did. I would love to see more with the LoL property.
 
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Thanee
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Riot Kades wrote:
Yeah, whatever we work on, we want it to feel inspired. Don't get me wrong, I love League. But the experience for me to play League is best at my PC. Why give you a worse league experience just to make it as a boardgame? I'd rather us try to make the best boardgame we can.


The right decision, IMHO.

From what I have seen so far, MvM looks like it will be super fun!

Bye
Thanee
 
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Dave Thomas
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Dark63 wrote:
Buy Rum and Bones and see why.

Moba Style game isn't that great.


Agreed - and for me it would have been the difference between having currently bought the game and not.

I'm looking on it as a quirky and fun looking game that'll engage my kids but have the logical elements of the sequential programming [ala Robot Turtles I suppose] planning and thought but with plenty of activity so no-one gets disinterested half way through
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Brian C
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Riot Kades wrote:
Yeah, whatever we work on, we want it to feel inspired. Don't get me wrong, I love League. But the experience for me to play League is best at my PC. Why give you a worse league experience just to make it as a boardgame? I'd rather us try to make the best boardgame we can.

Great question OP. I was wondering this too.

Even better answer.
 
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Nick Dotzenrod
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I guess I am in the minority then.

I think it would be awesome fun to have a relatively large board, with jungles and creeps and dozens of heroes to choose from (Additional heroes could be sold as small expansion packs). Then every character having various abilities similar to, in this case, their abilities in LoL. Maybe not exactly 1:1, as that could get tedious, but at least a couple each.

Obviously, if there is no demand for this kind of game besides myself, then it is what it is.
 
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William Aull
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bassman211 wrote:
I guess I am in the minority then.

I think it would be awesome fun to have a relatively large board, with jungles and creeps and dozens of heroes to choose from (Additional heroes could be sold as small expansion packs). Then every character having various abilities similar to, in this case, their abilities in LoL. Maybe not exactly 1:1, as that could get tedious, but at least a couple each.

Obviously, if there is no demand for this kind of game besides myself, then it is what it is.


Gotta make it work for a board game without having a billion rules.

If you set up lanes, and 'this creep works like this, this creep works like that', every hero having unique specials, different styles of creeps and ways to work through lanes... the rulebook would be 100 pages long and complex as hell. Wouldn't work so well for a board game.

I think Rum & Bones is as close as you'll get successfully, and even then the phases to move all the units forward, spawn new units, etc. are the most droll parts of the game. The only fun is when you get control of your 3 heroes around phase 4-5 of the player turn.
 
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Stefan Lopuszanski
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bassman211 wrote:
I guess I am in the minority then.

I think it would be awesome fun to have a relatively large board, with jungles and creeps and dozens of heroes to choose from (Additional heroes could be sold as small expansion packs). Then every character having various abilities similar to, in this case, their abilities in LoL. Maybe not exactly 1:1, as that could get tedious, but at least a couple each.

Obviously, if there is no demand for this kind of game besides myself, then it is what it is.


The problem I found, outside of LoL changing over the years and making a board game that would be relatively stagnate, is that AoS/MOBA games are really 3 or 4 different games in one. The laning phase is very different from the roaming objective phase which is very different from the group fighting phase which is different from the sieging phase. Then you have the different lanes that differ from the relatively isolated top, the back and forth mid, and the ADC + support combo. All with a jungler that is thrown into the mix.

I came up with a decent simulation of the laning phase using a semi-rock/paper/scissors game with different strengths / weakeneses based on "attitudes" (aggressive, defensive, passive, etc), but even then it only captured one small aspect.

Maybe I'll revisit the concept one of these days, but it seems like it would be a full time project and not something that would be easy to do just in some spare time.
 
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Sean Thompson
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I don't think "just play LoL on the computer with your friends" is a valid point. I know lots of board gamers that don't have LoL installed. I know lots of people that would rather have interaction with other players in person. Heck that's what board gaming is all about. There are lots of reasons not to play online.

As for a MOBA board game, I think Rum and Bones is just fine. And I think Riot could raise the bar as well. Who says the game has to be exactly like the computer version? Make a totally different map. Have a deckbuilder aspect with the item store. I'd love to see some of my favorite characters as minis. Heck you could even make the lanes roll and move, hehehe. For jungling just make set paths through the jungle. Make paths to blue and red, Baron, dragon, or completely new monsters for bonuses. What's so hard about moving minions one space during your turn? Have them stop at turrets and do damage. Take out a spawn point and the minions stop coming. Replace your minions with more powerful ones. Kill a minion get one gold. Use it at the item shop back at base. Give the champions abilities that interact with the board, minions, structures, and other champions. Level up skills by killing stuff. I could go on and on. With an experienced design team this would be a piece of cake.
 
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bassman211 wrote:
I think it would be awesome fun to have a relatively large board, with jungles and creeps and dozens of heroes to choose from (Additional heroes could be sold as small expansion packs). Then every character having various abilities similar to, in this case, their abilities in LoL. Maybe not exactly 1:1, as that could get tedious, but at least a couple each.


I think it would be good, too. The MvM oomponents (ie. mini's and boards) certainly could be used for some sort of MOBA or other ocmbat game. As it stands, you could have two armies of two mechs and fifty minions each. The game mechanics certainly could support a "team vs. team" environment.

Once you finish up the ten missions, I'm sure you'll be familiar enough with the game system to design a MOBA!
 
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Stefan Lopuszanski
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tygrhobbes wrote:
I don't think "just play LoL on the computer with your friends" is a valid point. I know lots of board gamers that don't have LoL installed. I know lots of people that would rather have interaction with other players in person. Heck that's what board gaming is all about. There are lots of reasons not to play online.

As for a MOBA board game, I think Rum and Bones is just fine. And I think Riot could raise the bar as well. Who says the game has to be exactly like the computer version? Make a totally different map. Have a deckbuilder aspect with the item store. I'd love to see some of my favorite characters as minis. Heck you could even make the lanes roll and move, hehehe. For jungling just make set paths through the jungle. Make paths to blue and red, Baron, dragon, or completely new monsters for bonuses. What's so hard about moving minions one space during your turn? Have them stop at turrets and do damage. Take out a spawn point and the minions stop coming. Replace your minions with more powerful ones. Kill a minion get one gold. Use it at the item shop back at base. Give the champions abilities that interact with the board, minions, structures, and other champions. Level up skills by killing stuff. I could go on and on. With an experienced design team this would be a piece of cake.


That way over simplifies the complexities of the genre and the experience and feelings of it. That's like saying "just make an FPS board game where you throw dice at targets or something." It doesn't have the same feel at all.
 
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Sean Thompson
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Stexe wrote:
tygrhobbes wrote:
I don't think "just play LoL on the computer with your friends" is a valid point. I know lots of board gamers that don't have LoL installed. I know lots of people that would rather have interaction with other players in person. Heck that's what board gaming is all about. There are lots of reasons not to play online.

As for a MOBA board game, I think Rum and Bones is just fine. And I think Riot could raise the bar as well. Who says the game has to be exactly like the computer version? Make a totally different map. Have a deckbuilder aspect with the item store. I'd love to see some of my favorite characters as minis. Heck you could even make the lanes roll and move, hehehe. For jungling just make set paths through the jungle. Make paths to blue and red, Baron, dragon, or completely new monsters for bonuses. What's so hard about moving minions one space during your turn? Have them stop at turrets and do damage. Take out a spawn point and the minions stop coming. Replace your minions with more powerful ones. Kill a minion get one gold. Use it at the item shop back at base. Give the champions abilities that interact with the board, minions, structures, and other champions. Level up skills by killing stuff. I could go on and on. With an experienced design team this would be a piece of cake.


That way over simplifies the complexities of the genre and the experience and feelings of it. That's like saying "just make an FPS board game where you throw dice at targets or something." It doesn't have the same feel at all.


Nobody is asking for a 1:1 copy of LoL as a board game just something similar. Rum and Bones does a good job but I think Riot could make it even more streamlined, closer in play to their game, and with their IP. You may not agree but that is your opinion. Some would love a game like that. It seems like what you are asking for IS a 1:1 copy with the complexity and rulebook of say D&D. The game doesn't need that to get the feel of LoL. Once again you may disagree but some do not. It can be done.
 
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Stefan Lopuszanski
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tygrhobbes wrote:
Stexe wrote:
tygrhobbes wrote:
I don't think "just play LoL on the computer with your friends" is a valid point. I know lots of board gamers that don't have LoL installed. I know lots of people that would rather have interaction with other players in person. Heck that's what board gaming is all about. There are lots of reasons not to play online.

As for a MOBA board game, I think Rum and Bones is just fine. And I think Riot could raise the bar as well. Who says the game has to be exactly like the computer version? Make a totally different map. Have a deckbuilder aspect with the item store. I'd love to see some of my favorite characters as minis. Heck you could even make the lanes roll and move, hehehe. For jungling just make set paths through the jungle. Make paths to blue and red, Baron, dragon, or completely new monsters for bonuses. What's so hard about moving minions one space during your turn? Have them stop at turrets and do damage. Take out a spawn point and the minions stop coming. Replace your minions with more powerful ones. Kill a minion get one gold. Use it at the item shop back at base. Give the champions abilities that interact with the board, minions, structures, and other champions. Level up skills by killing stuff. I could go on and on. With an experienced design team this would be a piece of cake.


That way over simplifies the complexities of the genre and the experience and feelings of it. That's like saying "just make an FPS board game where you throw dice at targets or something." It doesn't have the same feel at all.


Nobody is asking for a 1:1 copy of LoL as a board game just something similar. Rum and Bones does a good job but I think Riot could make it even more streamlined, closer in play to their game, and with their IP. You may not agree but that is your opinion. Some would love a game like that. It seems like what you are asking for IS a 1:1 copy with the complexity and rulebook of say D&D. The game doesn't need that to get the feel of LoL. Once again you may disagree but some do not. It can be done.


I never said 1:1. I do think it is possible to come close with a lot of work. But I don't think it would be the right format to do that type of game. Like in theory you could create a game that feels the same as an FPS in board game format, but I'm not sure that would be appropriate either.

Maybe something could come out that would be good and fun, but I also don't think it would have mass appeal that something like MvM will have in comparison.

Why not try your hand in designing something?
 
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